Originally posted by galveston75Well.........not really.
God is how you account for the whole thing..........
What i want is for you to produce some evidence to back up your claim that all the ice caps, sheet and glaciers on Earth have only been there for 5,000yrs.
Then explain to me why there is no evidence in the ice core samples of the worldwide flood you believe happenned.
Originally posted by Proper KnobOk..I'm at work so give me some time and I'll get some info for you.
Well.........not really.
What i want is for you to produce some evidence to back up your claim that all the ice caps, sheet and glaciers on Earth have only been there for 5,000yrs.
Then explain to me why there is no evidence in the ice core samples of the worldwide flood you believe happenned.
Originally posted by Proper KnobThis doesn't answer specificly your ice cap question but I'm still searching more.
No problem, i'm out for the night in a tick so there's no rush.
Relevant information with regard to ice core samples and ice sheet, caps and glaciers.
Ciao.
The Breakdown of Earth's Heating System.
In the beginning, the now frozen regions of the poles flourished with vegetation and abounded with animals which geologists now find preserved in the ice. Who, then, could doubt that the water "above the firmament" was the earth's heat-equalizing system? But as soon as the water, in fulfillment of the flood, began to come down, – in fact, even before it had any chance to descend to the lower places of the earth, – this natural thermostatic system would quickly brake down, and the rain, as it fell on the earth, froze so suddenly in the polar regions that the animals while yet alive froze with it: they evidently had not time even to swallow their food, as is actually established by various archaeological exhumations.
As it rained continuously for forty days and the skies became quite dark the earth went through a rather extreme temperature drop because the warming rays of the sun were not able to penetrate the abundance of water in the sky. This rapid cooling occurred in the surface land as well as the air, though not to the same degree. Thus, with the loss of the waters "above the firmament," and the long period (40 days) of no warming sunshine, we have the origin of the "ice age." During that same time warmer waters from the equatorial regions were coming into contact with the quickly frozen waters near the poles partially thawing them until the prevailing cold refroze them.
After the rains stopped and the skies cleared, the sun's rays again warmed the air and the earth as the waters receded and the earth dried out. The natural outcome of this was that the newly-formed ice started to melt, and is continuing to do so today.
It is only natural for ice to melt rather slowly at first, and then more rapidly as its effect of cooling the things around it is diminished with the loss of its own mass – the more of it there is, the more effectively it can keep things cool, including itself. The less of it, the faster it disappears.
Thus, the global warming, and especially the melting of the glacial ice we are observing, is mainly the natural aftermath of Noah's flood.
The earth, now being without its heat-equalizing system, is affected with intense heat whenever the sun is in such a position as to send its rays through the least thickness of atmosphere as is the case at noonday, when the sun shines straight down instead of on a slant; and with even intenser heat whenever there is a density of atmosphere, such as is caused by humidity and low altitude; whereas conditions opposite to these, bring an opposite extreme.
Some proponents of the common global warming theories are predicting that the ocean levels will rise and other threatening conditions are soon to occur. The question then is, will it be long before the predicted adverse conditions become particularly noticeable (if they truly will)? This can be understood somewhat by taking into consideration how long the ice sheets have been in existence. That is, have they been around tens or hundreds of thousands, or even millions (or billions) of years, or only since Noah's flood – about 4,500 years ago? This is important to know, for it is by the answer to this that we are able to better evaluate what we have already observed about the melting of the ice sheets over their discernible histories.
Some who believe that there have been multiple ice ages place the last one at 10,000-20,000 years ago (more than two to four times the length of time from the flood). Thus they attribute the receding of the ice sheets from their greatest extent (about 1/3 of the northern hemisphere) to their present state to a much slower process.
But when we consider the great thickness of the ice sheets before they began to melt, and how much of them is gone in just the 4,500 years since the flood, we should not be surprised to see a seemingly rapid breakdown of the remaining ice sheets for there isn't all that much of them left, relatively speaking.
As a side note, the loss of the "waters above the firmament" (a.k.a., the "vapor canopy"😉 has affected more than just earth's temperature. It has also brought a change in the levels of carbon-14 saturation which is used to date things. Carbon Dating is described as follows:
"Carbon-14 has a half-life of 5730 years and would have long ago vanished from Earth were it not for the unremitting cosmic ray impacts on nitrogen in the Earth's atmosphere, which forms more of the isotope.
"The highest rate of carbon-14 production takes place at altitudes of 9 to 15 km (30,000 to 50,000 ft), and at high geomagnetic latitudes, but the carbon-14 spreads evenly throughout the atmosphere and reacts with oxygen to form carbon dioxide. Carbon dioxide also permeates the oceans, dissolving in the water. For approximate analysis it is assumed that the cosmic ray flux is constant over long periods of time; thus carbon-14 is produced at a constant rate and the proportion of radioactive to non-radioactive carbon is constant... In 1958 Hessel de Vries showed that the concentration of carbon-14 in the atmosphere varies with time and locality." Wikipedia (an online encyclopedia), art. "Carbon Dating."
While the "waters above the firmament" were there, the amount of carbon-14 that was produced was different than what is observed today. Thus, when things which existed prior to the flood are dated using carbon-14 dating the results are not at all accurate because the above stated assumption that there has always been a "constant rate" for the production of carbon-14 is simply not true, not being reflective of the change which occurred when those waters fell to the earth. That is, though the production of carbon-14 itself may be "constant," it was of a different "constant" before the flood than it is today. Therefore, as many of those who propagate the common global warming theories rely heavily on Carbon Dating to support their ideas, while at the same time denying that the flood ever occurred (in spite of the fact that a vast majority of the ancient civilizations worldwide tell of one), and as such dating is greatly affected by the changes caused by the flood, their conclusions cannot be trusted.
Originally posted by Proper Knobi would not trust the NIV to stand upon if i was going to try to reach something high, its a terrible translation which is as inaccurate as it is cold and impersonal. the figures that i have are even slightly less than yours Noobster.
It appears that i've over estimated the size of the Ark Rob, the New International Version of the Bible gives the size as 450ft long, 75ft wide and 45ft high. Which gives a total space of -
43,019m3. Way less than my initial calculation of 57,000m3.
Now if we take just elephants Rob, and the four species of elephants. That means we have a minimum ...[text shortened]... of the air were wiped from the earth. Only Noah was left, and those with him in the ark.[/i]
In size the ark was 300 cubits long, 50 cubits wide, and 30 cubits high. Conservatively calculating the cubit as 44.5 cm (17.5 in.) (some think the ancient cubit was nearer 56 or 61 cm), the ark measured 133.5 m by 22.3 m by 13.4 m (437 ft 6 in. × 72 ft 11 in. × 43 ft 9 in.), less than half the length of the ocean liner Queen Elizabeth 2. This proportion of length to width (6 to 1) is used by modern naval architects. This gave the ark approximately 40,000 cu m (1,400,000 cu ft) in gross volume. It is estimated that such a vessel would have a displacement nearly equal to that of the mighty 269-m (883 ft) Titanic of this 20th century. No cargo vessel of ancient times even slightly resembled the ark in its colossal size. Internally strengthened by adding two floors, the three decks thus provided gave a total of about 8,900 sq m (96,000 sq ft) of space.
Flood Legends.
These folklore accounts of the Deluge agree with some major features of the Biblical account: (1) a place of refuge for a few survivors, (2) an otherwise global destruction of life by water, and (3) a seed of mankind preserved. The Egyptians, the Greeks, the Chinese, the Druids of Britain, the Polynesians, the Eskimos and Greenlanders, the Africans, the Hindus, and the American Indians—all of these have their Flood stories. The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia (Vol. 2, p. 319) states: “Flood stories have been discovered among nearly all nations and tribes. Though most common on the Asian mainland and the islands immediately south of it and on the North American continent, they have been found on all the continents. Totals of the number of stories known run as high as about 270 . . . The universality of the flood accounts is usually taken as evidence for the universal destruction of humanity by a flood and the spread of the human race from one locale and even from one family.
Though the traditions may not all refer to the same flood, apparently the vast majority do. The assertion that many of these flood stories came from contacts with missionaries will not stand up because most of them were gathered by anthropologists not interested in vindicating the Bible, and they are filled with fanciful and pagan elements evidently the result of transmission for extended periods of time in a pagan society. Moreover, some of the ancient accounts were written by people very much in opposition to the Hebrew-Christian tradition.”—Edited by G. Bromiley, 1982.
In times past, certain indigenous people (in Australia, Egypt, Fiji, Society Islands, Peru, Mexico, and other places) preserved a possible remnant of these traditions about the Flood by observing in November a ‘Feast of Ancestors’ or a ‘Festival of the Dead.’ Such customs reflected a memory of the destruction caused by the Deluge. According to the book Life and Work at the Great Pyramid, the festival in Mexico was held on the 17th of November because they “had a tradition that at that time the world had been previously destroyed; and they dreaded lest a similar catastrophe would, at the end of a cycle, annihilate the human race.” (By Professor C. Piazzi Smyth, Edinburgh, 1867, Vol. II, pp. 390, 391) Notes the book The Worship of the Dead: “This festival [of the dead] is . . . held by all on or about the very day on which, according to the Mosaic account, the Deluge took place, viz., the seventeenth day of the second month—the month nearly corresponding with our November.” (By J. Garnier, London, 1904, p. 4) Interestingly, the Bible reports that the Flood began “in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month.” (Ge 7:11) That “second month” corresponds to the latter part of October and the first part of November on our calendar.
Flood accounts, worldwide
Australia - Kurnai
Destruction by Water
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
Babylon - Berossus’ account
Destruction by Water
Warning Given
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
Babylon - Gilgamesh epic
Destruction by Water
Divine Cause
Warning Given
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
Bolivia - Chiriguano
Destruction by Water
Divine Cause
Warning Given
Humans Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
Borneo - Sea Dayak
Destruction by Water
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
Burma - Singpho
Destruction by Water
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
Canada - Cree
Destruction by Water
Divine Cause
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
Canada - Montagnais
Destruction by Water
Divine Cause
Warning Given
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
China - Lolo
Destruction by Water
Divine Cause
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
Cuba - original natives
Destruction by Water
Warning Given
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
East Africa - Masai
Destruction by Water
Divine Cause
Warning Given
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
Egypt - Book of the Dead
Destruction by Water
Divine Cause
Warning Given
Humans Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
Fiji - Walavu-levu tradition
Destruction by Water
Divine Cause
Humans Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
French Polynesia - Raïatéa
Destruction by Water
Divine Cause
Warning Given
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Greece - Lucian’s account
Destruction by Water
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
Guyana - Macushi
Destruction by Water
Divine Cause
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
Iceland - Eddas
Destruction by Water
Divine Cause
Humans Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
India - Andaman Islands
Destruction by Water
Divine Cause
Humans Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
India - Bhil
Destruction by Water
Warning Given
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
India - Kamar
Destruction by Water
Divine Cause
Warning Given
Humans Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
Iran - Zend-Avesta
Destruction by Water
Warning Given
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Italy - Ovid’s poetry
Destruction by Water
Divine Cause
Humans Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
Malay Peninsula - Jakun
Destruction by Water
Divine Cause
Humans Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
Mexico - Codex Chimalpopoca
Destruction by Water
Warning Given
Humans Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
Mexico - Huichol
Destruction by Water
Warning Given
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
New Zealand - Maori
Destruction by Water
Divine Cause
Humans Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
Peru - Indians of Huarochirí
Destruction by Water
Warning Given
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Russia - Vogul
Destruction by Water
Warning Given
Humans Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
U.S.A. (Alaska) - Kolusches
Destruction by Water
Warning Given
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
U.S.A. (Alaska) - Tlingit
Destruction by Water
Divine Cause
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
U.S.A. (Arizona) - Papago
Destruction by Water
Warning Given
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
U.S.A. (Hawaii) - legend of Nu-u
Destruction by Water
Divine Cause
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
Vanuatu - Melanesians
Destruction by Water
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
Vietnam - Bahnar
Destruction by Water
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
Wales - Dwyfan/Dwyfach legend
Destruction by Water
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
Originally posted by robbie carrobieGood research Robbie...
Flood accounts, worldwide
[b]Australia - Kurnai
Destruction by Water
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
Babylon - Berossus’ account
Destruction by Water
Warning Given
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
Babylon - Gilgamesh epic
Destruction by Water
Divine Cause ...[text shortened]... yfach legend
Destruction by Water
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel[/b]
Originally posted by galveston75Why thank you Galveston. The tag of "clown" shall be removed for you-for now.
I appreciate everyones comments and we all are here to learn I hope and express ourselves. With the exception of one, r**j, I feel most here have no bad motives and are being honest with there viewpoints. Sorry if I haven't shown respect to that...
Why you so crappy with Rajk? Anyway I'm not going to get too deep but I suspect if the world was going to end (or some other major panic), Rajk would probably be a pretty good ally.
Just remember you also have proffered put-downs to others, albeit subtle and restrained🙂
Originally posted by robbie carrobieNice Rob. I'll put a little reminder to where that post is. No doubt it will be refrenced in the future..
Flood accounts, worldwide
[b]Australia - Kurnai
Destruction by Water
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
Babylon - Berossus’ account
Destruction by Water
Warning Given
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
Babylon - Gilgamesh epic
Destruction by Water
Divine Cause ...[text shortened]... yfach legend
Destruction by Water
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel[/b]
Originally posted by karoly aczelThanks..But the person I referred to does nothing to promote anything good among us all but seems to be here to only condemn. If he had something helpful to add to our discussions thats one thing, but it never happens and he seems to just lerk in the backgound to attack. I don't think any of us do that to him. Just my thoughts.
Why thank you Galveston. The tag of "clown" shall be removed for you-for now.
Why you so crappy with Rajk? Anyway I'm not going to get too deep but I suspect if the world was going to end (or some other major panic), Rajk would probably be a pretty good ally.
Just remember you also have proffered put-downs to others, albeit subtle and restrained🙂
Originally posted by galveston75I think I know where you are coming from-he is quite 'gruff' at times, however he often quotes from the bible , and me being not very well versed in the bible, am just as likely to see his point of view as anyone elses.
Thanks..But the person I referred to does nothing to promote anything good among us all but seems to be here to only condemn. If he had something helpful to add to our discussions thats one thing, but it never happens and he seems to just lerk in the backgound to attack. I don't think any of us do that to him. Just my thoughts.
Anyway I'll leave it and I think you should too. I'm sure there will be future encounters which will reinvigorate old rivalries. 🙂