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@sonship saidBut "Scripture" has turned out to be more of a crabby albatross than a guide toward a "return" to the Sublime in which we already occur -- and why isn't this already a topic in the DSM whatever?
@josephw
I find no such thing taught in the scriptures.
"In some sense"? What sense? How do you gleen that idea from the scriptures?
The scriptures teach that we "are the sons of God".
Why add to that?
We do not feel re are adding to Scripture.
Some eight hundred or so if someone said "By faith were are justified before God" ...[text shortened]... this is adding to Scripture.
"But this was giving due attention to what was written there.
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@Kevin-Eleven
Your comment a ways back about the seed not being the soil.
Or you said the plant is not the same as the earth, is true.
There is a distinction between the plant and the soil it is planted in.
I agreed with that.
Fantastically enough the nutrients in the soil go into making the plant.
That I think was the last relevant comment imo I thought I would reply to.
Sorry it was so late.
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@sonship saidPlease quote me accurately if at all.
@Kevin-Eleven
Your comment a ways back about the seed not being the soil.
Or you said the plant is not the earth is true.
I've heard the wind in the wires.
I've heard the Martian songs.
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Josephw,
I hope you will explain what is born in a man whoi is born again or born anew.
I also would like to ask you what grows so that it grows up into Christ?
If Christ is already HERE, what is it for anyone/s to grow up INTO Him?
"But holding to truth in love, we may grow up into Him in all things, who is the Head, Christ." (Eph. 4:15)
So I have these two questions.
What is born in being born again?
And what is growing in growing up into Him, Christ?
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I've heard the Martian songs.
I am pretty sure the Martian world is a dead, cold, lifeless world from which no songs are coming from its imagined "inhabitants."
I think into the next fifty years (should the Lord Jesus delay His coming) no life at all will be found on any other world.
It is only the imaginations of science fiction that abiogenesis kicked off somewhere else in the cosmos such that another bioshpere is out there among the stars.
I think we under estimate the importance of human beings on THIS world and OUR place and purpose in the univverse. That is my hunch.
@sonship saidSuch elementary questions. Born, or born again, means to change your evil ways, change into a new person, that keeps the commandments, lives righteously and do good works. Grow in Christ is the same thing. Its the process by which the Christian keeps on following the teachings of Christ. Paul explains exactly what he means, but you rather not read that, becuase you want to put your own meaning to those passages. The entire chapter of Ephesians 4 and most of 5 is about righteous living and good works which if the Christian fails to follow will lead to damnation, and no inheritance in the Kingdom of God
Josephw,
I hope you will explain what is born in a man whoi is born again or born anew.
I also would like to ask you what grows so that it grows up into Christ?
If Christ is already HERE, what is it for anyone/s to grow up INTO Him?
[b]"But holding to truth in love, we may grow up into Him in all things, who is the Head, Christ." (Ep ...[text shortened]... questions.
What is born in being born again?
And what is growing in growing up into Him, Christ?
But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. (Ephesians 5:3-5 KJV)
No inheritance says Paul, there is no guaranteed eternal life. That is yet another false doctrine
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01 Feb 22
No inheritance says Paul, there is no guaranteed eternal life. That is yet another false doctrine
Paul warns against the loss of reward during the millennial kingdom.
Paul does not warn against the rtevoking of the free gift of eternal life.
Maybe, fifty times, you have been told this over a decade now.
I write it for the sake of any new readers.
01 Feb 22
@sonship saidPosting rubbish, lies and false doctrines, 1,000,000 times does not change its status ... it is still rubbish. First the expression free gift only appears in the bible ONCE [actually 3 times when Paul was describing a particular event] in Romans 5, and it is the FREE GIFT of justification of ALL PEOPLE through the death of Christ
@Rajk999
No inheritance says Paul, there is no guaranteed eternal life. That is yet another false doctrine
Paul warns against the loss of reward during the millennial kingdom.
Paul does not warn against the rtevoking of the free gift of eternal life.
Maybe, fifty times, you have been told this over a decade now.
I write it for the sake of any new readers.
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.(Romans 5:18 KJV)
The bible NEVER ONCE SAID that eternal life is a free gift. That is a fabrication of the church
Next Paul never warns of any .. loss of reward during the millennial kingdom. . Pauls said in crystal clear language that there is no inheritance in the Kingdom of God, for Christians who live in sin Only fools and the devils angels dare to change and twist clear bible teaching. But you are special, you are both.
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First the expression free gift only appears in the bible ONCE [actually 3 times when Paul was describing a particular event] in Romans 5, and it is the FREE GIFT of justification of ALL PEOPLE through the death of Christ
Actually, it is "free" only to us. The price paid was paid by Another. And the price was infinitely costly. So the "gift of God" only appears "free" from the standpoint of those who did not secure it on man's behalf.
"For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." (Romans 6:23)
Any thought from Rajk999 that there is the "free gift" which is "free" and the just plain "gift" which is not "free" but is the result of "wages" is false.
Gift of God = Free gift of God.
Rajk999 wants to change the Bible to say "For the wages of sin is death, and the wages of obedience is eternal life."
Rajk999 wants to make the gift of eternal life the WAGES due for keeping additional laws.
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Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.(Romans 5:18 KJV)
The "free gift" can be refused.
The "free gift" can be rejected.
One may argue with God "I don't NEED Your free gift."
One may argue " I despise God's free gift. I didn't ask for it to be extended. And I have no need of either Him or His free gift."
One may argue " I have a better way to obtain eternal life. The free gift of any kind is for sissys. I am different and self qualifying. I am not like the others. I have the wages DUE to me. "
These are among the fool hefty ones.
They count the "Good News" as "Bad News" to their sense of self righteousness.
The bible NEVER ONCE SAID that eternal life is a free gift. That is a fabrication of the church
This man hates the assembly. He hates the church.
This man will argue that faith is disobedience and lawlessness.
"Indeed, He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not also with Him FREELY . . . give us all things?" (Rom. 8:32)
The answer to the rhetorical question is - God who gave up His own Son for our justification freely, will freely give us all things else needed for the fulfillment of His eternal plan. That includes His eternal life.
"the gift of God is eternal life" (Rom. 6:23)
Not "the WAGES DUE of God is eternal life"
01 Feb 22
@sonship saidYou need to add the word free, because it supports your false doctrineFirst the expression free gift only appears in the bible ONCE [actually 3 times when Paul was describing a particular event] in Romans 5, and it is the FREE GIFT of justification of ALL PEOPLE through the death of Christ
Actually, it is "free" only to us. The price paid was paid by Another. And the price was infinitely costly. So the "gift of God" only ...[text shortened]... " [/i]
Rajk999 wants to make the gift of eternal life the WAGES due for keeping additional laws.
Only Satan needs to add to the bible.
Gods chosen and the elect have no need to do that
You have added minor stuff and blasphemous stuff.
Either way your aim is to drag people down the path of damnation with you.
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You need to add the word free, because it supports your false doctrine
You need to concoct a phony doctrine that a "free gift" is verses "gift."
You need to invent such a dichotomy that a "gift" is wages earned but a "free gift" is not.
Only Satan needs to add to the bible.
Satan, hating that God justifies men unto eternal life through the redemption of Christ urges you on to invent a phony dichotomy between "gift" and "free gift".
This hatred goes back to the murder of Abel by his brother Cain.
God accepted the offering of blood through Abel's sacrifice.
And God rejecterd the offering of the good crops Cain had cultivated.
His being offended against the God who also loved him (Cain) was taken advantage of by the Devil. And Cain's heart was filled with envy to the point of murdering his brother, whose offering God accepted.
Abel offered his gift most assuredly from learning from his parents, Adam and Eve, that God killed a beast when THEY were expecting to die. And God did not immediately slay them instead.
This must have been the basis of thier approaching God through a sacrifice of a living animal which they taught also to their children. But Cain instead invented his own way to approach God, bringing the best of the things HE could produce.
"By faith Abel offered to God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, through which he obtained the testimony that he was righteus, God testifying to his gifts; and through faith, though he died, he stills speaks." (Heb. 11:4)
" . . . Cain was of the evil one and slew his brother. And for what reason did he slay him? BEcause his works were evil, and his brother's righteous. Do not marvel, brothers, if the world hates you." (1 John 3:12,13)
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Gods chosen and the elect have no need to do that
You have added minor stuff and blasphemous stuff.
Either way your aim is to drag people down the path of damnation with you.
Cain invented the first religion. Abel, like his parents offered to God according to God's revelation.
"And in the course of time Cain brought an offering to Jehovah from the fruit of the ground. And Abel also brought an offering, from the firstlings of his flock, that is, from their fat portions.
And Jehovah God had regard for Abel and for his offering. But for Cain and for his offering He had no regard. And Cain became very angry, and his countenance fell.
And Jehovah said to Cain, Why are you angry, and why has your countenance fallen? If you do well, will not your countenance be lifted up? And if you do not well, sin is crouching at the door; and his desire is for you, but you must rule over him." (Gen. 4:3-7)
You Rajk999, have come here with a fallen, furious countenance, unhappy with God, with Christ, sick with envy and disgust with those accepted by God for thier faith in the death and resurrection of Jesus for thier eternal justification.
The one crouching at your heart to gain even more ground has poisoned you with envy against those redeemed by God. But you countenance would become radiant if you would offer to God Jesus Christ as your only ground of acceptance unto eternal life.
Then you would likeme stand in Christ claiming that HE and HE alone is our only standing before God unto the gift of eternal life. As it stands you are more like the angry elder brother in the parable of the prodigal son who refused to make merry that one dead had come back to life and returned to the father's house, not as a servant, but as a son made alive who had become dead.
01 Feb 22
1 edit
@sonship saidThe bible says over and over ....
"the gift of God is eternal life" (Rom. 6:23)
Not "the WAGES DUE of God is eternal life"
For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. (Ephesians 5:5 KJV)
The bible did NOT SAY
..Paul warns against the loss of reward during the millennial kingdom.