31 Jan 22
@ghost-of-a-duke saidYour perspective and opinions are not offensive.
No offence Joseph, but I think the whole religion thing is limited in scope and that it is time for humanity to collectively put away childhood things and look to the future of science and exploration. There is still a huge amount we do not know, but that cognitive knowledge isn't going to be found looking backwards.
But I wonder how you seem to have missed it, that Christianity is forward looking, not backward looking.
I'm not against science and exploration as a means of discovery of knowledge. That has been the way it has been for ages.
Science looks or sees within the bounds of a material universe while spirituality looks or sees outside and beyond the physical universe.
Just thinkin'.
31 Jan 22
@sonship saidI googled "deo", and all I got was the Florida department of economic opportunity.
Josephw?
Is the SEED of 1 John 3:9 in possession of:
the life of God?
the nature of God?
the expression of God?
Let's put it this way.
Is that SEED in possession of
the life of Deo?
the nature of Deo?
the expression of Deo?
Here are a few other English translations of 1 John 3:9
[b] Christian St ...[text shortened]... sin, for God's very nature is in them; and because God is their Father, they cannot continue to sin.
Can you tell me what these verses mean?
1 John 1:8-10
¶ If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
Then with this verse please explain how they appear to contradict each other.
1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
@josephw
My mistake on Deo. Scratch that. I withdraw the usage of that.
Can you tell me what these verses mean?
1 John 1:8-10
¶ If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
I think it is clearly self explanatory.
No Christian can claim that he or she does not have sin.
I have sin.
I am also a partaker of the divine nature.
I have sin.
I am also begotten of God.
To the extent that that seed of God grows, infiltrates, and permeates my whole being (as it will and must) I am delivered from that sin nature.
On the way, in this sanctification process, when I do commit a sin and it is known to me by the Holy Spirit, I must confess that sin. And the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses me from all sin.
Through confession, clensing, increase of consciousness -
further confessions, cleansing, increase of consciousness -
further confession, further cleansing, further increase of consciousness -
etc. etc. as a CYCLE repeating and deepening throughout the Christian life growth of the divine seed takes place.
John encourages us to get into this cycle in 1:8-2:2
"If we say that we do not have sin, we are deceiving ourselves, and the truth is not in us. (v.8)
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.(v.9)
If we say that we have not sinned, we make HIm a liar, and His word is not in us. (v.10)
My little children, these things I write to you that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the Righteous. (2:1)
Above us before God we have an Advocate. We have an Attorney on our behalf as we are growing - Jesus Christ the Righteous who is the very propitiation for our sins. Within we have a "Helper" who is growintg. He is without sin by nature, life, and expression.
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
While we have this we also have Him as the divine life of God. the seed or the living and abiding word of God within us. Godf's nature is with Him. God's life is with Him. God's expression is with Him. And He cannot sin because it is against His nature. And He MUST grow, spread, increase, develop, and sanctify the ones in whom He has been PLANTED.
There is no discrepancy.
Then with this verse please explain how they appear to contradict each other.
1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
We should believe both for our God has uttered both.
It should be apparent that John is not teaching instantaneous sinless perfection from the moment one is born of God. Otherwise he would not have advised about being realistic about the need for confession.
On the other hand he knows by experience that the nature of the divine seed is victorious. And it eventually must become our whole life. As the growth of the life of the divine seed more and more deepens are a result of obedience, confession, enlightenment, cleansing, growth, etc the victory over the sin nature is obtained.
The victory is our FAITH also - FAITH in the ability of this indwelling life of Christ.
"For everything that has been begotten of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory which has overcome the world - our faith." (1 John 5:4)
- Joined
- 14 Mar 15
- Moves
- 29847
31 Jan 22
@sonship saidHere's a thought sonship. Perhaps some things in the Bible are figurative and not intended to be taken literally.
While we have this we also have Him as the divine life of God. the seed or the living and abiding word of God within us. Godf's nature is with Him. God's life is with Him. God's expression is with Him. And He cannot sin because it is against His nature. And He MUST grow, spread, increase, develop, and sanctify the ones in whom He has been PLANTED.
There is no discrepanc ...[text shortened]... omes the world; and this is the victory which has overcome the world - our faith." (1 John 5:4) [/b]
@sonship saidChristians have made a royal mess of these passages, by claiming that they have eternal life already and they are born of God and are regenerated. Christians have develpoed a greedy doctrine, taking what is not yet theirs and claiming it as theirs before the time and before judgment day.
While we have this we also have Him as the divine life of God. the seed or the living and abiding word of God within us. Godf's nature is with Him. God's life is with Him. God's expression is with Him. And He cannot sin because it is against His nature. And He MUST grow, spread, increase, develop, and sanctify the ones in whom He has been PLANTED.
There is no discrepanc ...[text shortened]... omes the world; and this is the victory which has overcome the world - our faith." (1 John 5:4) [/b]
The bible does not support that doctrine. Here is the correct process:
- profess faith
- live righteously and do good works
- await the day of judgment
- the righteous Christians are then regenerated, born of God, given a new body like that of Christ and are not flesh and blood beings. These are born of God.
ONLY THEN
- they are regenerated
- they cannot sin
- they can move like the wind
- they are spirit beings
- they are begotton of God.
NOT BEFORE
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
Here's a thought sonship. Perhaps some things in the Bible are figurative and not intended to be taken literally.
Of course everyone knows that the Bible contains allegories, symbolism, fifures of speech, parables, things which have meaning yet are not to be taken literally.
And there is aso simple unbelief.
Don't user "not to be taken literally" excuse to mask blantent unbelief.
Unbelief is something we should even repent of.
There is something called "an evil heart of unbelief'
Beware, brothers, lest perhaps there be in any one of you an evil heart of unbelief in falling away from the iving God." (Heb. 3:12)
So there is a time to come confessing - "Dear Lord God, have mercy on me. For I have an evil heart of unbelief. I cannot help myself with this evil heart of unbelief. I open to You Lord Jesus to receive the ability to believe Yourb word."
In this p[assage "an evil heart of unbelief" does not have to be the end.
But it is brought on by "the deceitfulness of sin" . The tricking, deceiving, heart hardening nature of temptation and sin causes us to be clouded with unbelief.
Brothers in Christ must exhort one another not to be taken in.
Like Pharoah, unrepented and stubborn sinning hardens the heart against the living God when He is willing to accept confession, repentance, and request for help vrom the Lord Jesus our Savior.
" Beware, brothers, lest perhaps there be in any one of you an evil heart if unbelief in falling away from the living God. But exhort one another each day, as long as it is called "today," lest any one of you be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin - " (Heb. 3:12,13)
- Joined
- 14 Mar 15
- Moves
- 29847
31 Jan 22
@sonship saidHow does any of that excuse your blasphemy of calling yourself a God?
@Ghost-of-a-Duke
Of course everyone knows that the Bible contains allegories, symbolism, p[arables, things which have meaning yert not to be taken literally.
And there is aso simple unbelief.
Don't user "not to be taken literally" excuse to mask blantent unbelief.
Unbelief is something we should even repent of.
There is something called "an evi ...[text shortened]... called "today," lest any one of you be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin - " (HEb. 3:12,13)
31 Jan 22
@ghost-of-a-duke saidHe aspires to be God and he is going to meet the same fate just like so many before him that tried it, failed and were condemned. ... all were agents of Satan.
How does any of that excuse your blasphemy of calling yourself a God?
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
Josephw, two objections have been launched.
1.) Ghost argues that "His seed abides in you" is among the "not to be taken literally" things. Of course he professes not to believe in God at all.
2.) Rajk999 recycles his decades long objection that there is no assurance of having the eternal life.
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
It should be taken seriously that the divine seed of God's life has been implanted into our being as Christians. In fact James says this implanted seed is able to save our souls. And here to save our souls means transformation of our souls.
The divine life is able to transform our mind, emotion, and will (our soul). And this transformation process is the salvation of our soul.
"Therefore putting away all filthiness and the abundance of malice, receive in meekness the implanted word, which is able to save your souls." (James 1:21)
The living word is "implanted" in the human spirit. Its growth transforms the soul into a righteous living, righteous doing victorious soul. In this it is full able to "save your souls" .
And of course receiving the divine seed of eternal life is being in possession of the eternal life.
"And this is the testimony, that God gave to us eternal life and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.
I write these things to you that you may know that you have eternal life, to you who believe into the name of the Son of God." (1 John 5:11-13)
31 Jan 22
@sonship saidAssurance is for a certain class of Christian that hear Christ and follow Christ.
It should be taken seriously that the divine seed of God's life has been implanted into our being as Christians. In fact James says this implanted seed is able to save our souls. And here to save our souls means transformation of the soul.
The divine life is able to transform our mind, emotion, and will (our soul). And this transformation process is ...[text shortened]... hat you have eternal life, to you who believe into the name of the Son of God." (1 John 5:11-13)[/b]
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. (John 10:27-28 KJV)
Professing faith and saying 'O Lord ' is not following Christ, and you get no assurance of eternal life from that kind of mouth worship.
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
Assurance is for a certain class of Christian that hear Christ and follow Christ.
I will not argue with you forever. The "certain class" of Christians are whoever believes into the name of the Son of God.
"He who believes into the Son of God has the testimony in himself; he who does not believe God has made Him a liar because he has not believerd in the testimony which God has testified concerning His Son." (v.10)
The "certain class" is believers in the Son of God.
"And this is the testimony, that God gave . . . " [PAST TENSE] PAST TENSE as in HAS ALREADY HAPPENED.
"And this is the testimony, that God gave to us eternal life and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life." (v.12)
"Aposlte John, this is very good. But could you please tell us why you are writing such a thing to your audience?"
"I have written these things to you that you may know that you have eternal life, to you who believe into the name of the Son of God." (v.13)
" Oh. Thankyou brother John, the Lord Jesus's apostle"
- Joined
- 14 Mar 15
- Moves
- 29847
31 Jan 22
@sonship saidAre these 'certain class' of Christians the ones who belong to the Recovery Movement, baring in mind your leader condemned Protestants and Catholics to Satan?
@Rajk999
Assurance is for a certain class of Christian that hear Christ and follow Christ.
I will not argue with you forever. The "certain class" of Christians are whoever believes into the Son of God.
"He who believes into the Son of God has the testimony in himsewlf; he who does nobt believe God has made Him a liar because he has not in t ...[text shortened]... of the Son of God." (v.13)
" Oh. Thankyou brother John, the Lord Jesus's apostle"
@sonship saidYou are thanking John for your twisting of the bible into mouth worship.
" Oh. Thankyou brother John, the Lord Jesus's apostle"
Believers in Christ have to DO, they must KEEP the commandments otherwise their faith is DEAD. Believers with DEAD FAITH are damned, and have no assurance of anything except damnation