28 Jan 22
@josephw saidNobody goes to heaven.
This is something I've noticed about yours and divegeester's logic with regards to the "everyone goes to heaven" ideology.
You pasted this quote, "dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie."
Do those get to go to heaven?
How about, "...fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abus ...[text shortened]... e just, And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth."
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
Seed - sperma - occurs 44 times in the New Testament.
Does this mean to you that " . . . because His seed abides in him, and he cannot sin, because he has been begotten of God" is not true ?
Does this mean 1 John 3:9 does not mean:
. . . anyone is begotten of God?
Does your anaylsis mean -
. . . anyone so begotten does not have His seed abiding in him?
. . . he does practice sin because he HAS NOT been begotten of God?
Does your uncomplicating analysis mean we should not believe this verse?
Translated 43 times as "seed", and once as "issue".
Jesus used it in the parable of the sower. Jesus said, "The seed is the word of God."
It's really not all that complicated. John does an excellent job of explaining it in his epistle.
So this means the "uncomplicated" understanding of 1 John 3:9 is that
"Everyone begotten of God, DOES practice sin because His seed in fact DOES NOT abide in him . . . ?"
Does your analysis therefore NEGATE the proposition of this verse so as to make it a false statement?
I know this will sound terrible, but when I read your characterizations of those things of which the scriptures teach, I get the impression that you're trying to reinvent the wheel.
So 1 John 3:9 in fact DOES NOT mean "Everyone who has been begotten of God does not practice sin, because His seed abides in him, and he cannot sin, because he has been begotten of God?"
You "uncomplicated" interpretation renders to mean something else, BUT NOT "Everyone begotten of God does not practice sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, becausee he has been begotten of God" which is the ERRONEOUS COMPLICATED misunderstanding?
God wrote it down just as we need to read and hear it.
The Holy Spirit teaches and communicates to our spirit and minds what the scriptures mean by what they say.
So then what is your uncomplicated alternative and correct understanding of 1 John 3:9 ?
- Joined
- 14 Mar 15
- Moves
- 29847
29 Jan 22
@josephw saidAmen brother.
I know this will sound terrible, but when I read your characterizations of those things of which the scriptures teach, I get the impression that you're trying to reinvent the wheel.
God wrote it down just as we need to read and hear it.
The Holy Spirit teaches and communicates to our spirit and minds what the scriptures mean by what they say.
30 Jan 22
@sonship saidThe seed is The Word of God.
@josephwSeed - sperma - occurs 44 times in the New Testament.
Does this mean to you that " . . . because His seed abides in him, and he cannot sin, because he has been begotten of God" is not true ?
Does this mean 1 John 3:9 does not mean:
. . . anyone is begotten of God?
Does your anaylsis mean -
. . . anyone so ...[text shortened]...
So then what is your uncomplicated alternative and correct understanding of 1 John 3:9 ?
Your grammar is confusing. Sorry.
30 Jan 22
@kevin-eleven said"In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return."
Is the flower the same as the soil?
Is the tree the same as the ground?
God is honest, is He not? The truth is refreshing. I have no fear knowing what I am.
30 Jan 22
@ghost-of-a-duke saidI appreciate your affirmation Ghost.
Amen brother.
Now just believe, and The Truth will set you free. The kingdom of God awaits your arrival. 🙏
- Joined
- 14 Mar 15
- Moves
- 29847
30 Jan 22
@josephw saidWe are brothers only in our shared humanity.
I appreciate your affirmation Ghost.
Now just believe, and The Truth will set you free. The kingdom of God awaits your arrival. 🙏
30 Jan 22
@ghost-of-a-duke saidYes. Brothers according to the flesh. As such we share in common the same appetites.
We are brothers only in our shared humanity.
But.. but.. but...there is more. Infinitely more. Surely, cognitively, you understand that your position, with regards to the supernatural, is severely limited in scope.
- Joined
- 14 Mar 15
- Moves
- 29847
30 Jan 22
@josephw saidNo offence Joseph, but I think the whole religion thing is limited in scope and that it is time for humanity to collectively put away childhood things and look to the future of science and exploration. There is still a huge amount we do not know, but that cognitive knowledge isn't going to be found looking backwards.
Yes. Brothers according to the flesh. As such we share in common the same appetites.
But.. but.. but...there is more. Infinitely more. Surely, cognitively, you understand that your position, with regards to the supernatural, is severely limited in scope.
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
The seed is The Word of God.
Your grammar is confusing. Sorry.
I do not argue that the seed is the word of God.
We who have been regenerated have been regenerated by the living and abiding word of God.
"Having been regenerated not of corruptible seed but of incorruptible, through the living and abiding word of God." (1 Pet. 1:23)
So let's agree that that seed John says abides [lives] in the believers is the "living and abiding word of God," incourrptible and causing man to be regenerated.
Within that seed then (as you like - God's Word, God's living and abiding Word) is there:
the incorruptible life of God,
the incorruptible nature of God,
the incorruptible expression of God?
Here is John 3:9 again in Amplified Bible
Amplified Bible
No one who is born of God [deliberately, knowingly, and habitually] practices sin, because God’s seed [His principle of life, the essence of His righteous character] remains [permanently] in him [who is born again—who is reborn from above—spiritually transformed, renewed, and set apart for His purpose]; and he [who is born again] cannot habitually [live a life characterized by] sin, because he is born of God and longs to please Him.
- Joined
- 14 Mar 15
- Moves
- 29847
30 Jan 22
@sonship saidIf you're taking from that you are personally deified you are, I'm afraid, misunderstanding the text.
Amplified Bible
No one who is born of God [deliberately, knowingly, and habitually] practices sin, because God’s seed [His principle of life, the essence of His righteous character] remains [permanently] in him [who is born again—who is reborn from above—spiritually transformed, renewed, and set apart for His purpose]; and he [who is born again] cannot habitually [live a life characterized by] sin, because he is born of God and longs to please Him.
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
Josephw?
Is the SEED of 1 John 3:9 in possession of:
the life of God?
the nature of God?
the expression of God?
Let's put it this way.
Is that SEED in possession of
the life of Deo?
the nature of Deo?
the expression of Deo?
Here are a few other English translations of 1 John 3:9
Christian Standard Bible
Everyone who has been born of God does not sin, because his seed remains in him; he is not able to sin, because he has been born of God.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
Everyone who has been born of God does not sin, because His seed remains in him; he is not able to sin, because he has been born of God.
American Standard Version
Whosoever is begotten of God doeth no sin, because his seed abideth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is begotten of God.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
No one who is begotten from God commits sin, because his seed is in him and he is not able to sin because he has been begotten from God.
Contemporary English Version
God's children cannot keep on being sinful. His life-giving power lives in them and makes them his children, so they cannot keep on sinning.
Douay-Rheims Bible
Whosoever is born of God, commmitteth not sin: for his seed abideth in him, and he can not sin, because he is born of God.
English Revised Version
Whosoever is begotten of God doeth no sin, because his seed abideth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is begotten of God.
Good News Translation
Those who are children of God do not continue to sin, for God's very nature is in them; and because God is their Father, they cannot continue to sin.
- Joined
- 14 Mar 15
- Moves
- 29847
30 Jan 22
@sonship saidBut Christians 'do' sin.
Josephw?
Is the SEED of 1 John 3:9 in possession of:
the life of God?
the nature of God?
the expression of God?
Let's put it this way.
Is that SEED in possession of
the life of Deo?
the nature of Deo?
the expression of Deo?
Here are a few other English translations of 1 John 3:9
[b] Christian St ...[text shortened]... sin, for God's very nature is in them; and because God is their Father, they cannot continue to sin.
That alone negates your argument.