02 Feb 22
@sonship saidHaving God become a man is really at the heart of this; what God does with us after that is all on God, not on what we think will happen. Having God call us family, sons, and daughters is to be noted; no doubt what that means remains to be seen; I think it is beyond our abilities to grasp. When we are called the temples of God that we will be His people, and He will be our God, are statements carry so much meaning that it is difficult to wrap our minds around.
These friendly and non-hostile questions are for any believers in Jesus who think I may have blasphemed God by speaking of deification of the saved.
I love you in the Lord. But let me now check with your suspicion that I have blasphemed.
First question:
Was Jesus the first human being to be raised from the dead ?
02 Feb 22
@sonship saidI have changed nothing. The terms saved, justified, sanctified, salvation, eternal life, all mean different things. Jesus told people their faith saved them. Paul said women are saved in childbearing. Jesus told [people salvation came to this house. In none of those situations is it the case that they all get eternal life.
@Rajk999Although I am an agreement with the fact that you are saved, you are justified, you are born again,,, everything .
Then you have CHANGED.
Repeatedly you have assigned me to damning.
Repeatedly you have said "born again" pertains to the resurrection of the body.
So now you appear to have CHANGED your attitude toward me.
Not that it is a great concern to me that you have.
All people are justified, and saved by the Death of Christ [Romans 5:18 and other passages}
Christians must profess faith, and live righteously in order to be Christian Saints, and occupy the privileged position reserved for them as kings and priests with Christ during His reign on the earth
Christians who are judged to be sinful and evil will not be raised to rule with Christ instead they remain until the end of the millennium.
Saved people can be condemned if they live in sin
Justified people can be cast out of the Kingdom of God is they are evil
Salvation does not automatically grant eternal life
Jesus gives eternal life to the righteous people who keep the commandments.
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02 Feb 22
Having God become a man is really at the heart of this; what God does with us after that is all on God, not on what we think will happen. Having God call us family, sons, and daughters is to be noted; no doubt what that means remains to be seen; I think it is beyond our abilities to grasp. When we are called the temples of God that we will be His people, and He will be our God, are statements carry so much meaning that it is difficult to wrap our minds around.
Thankyou for your comment.
And I agree that some things have not entered ito the heart of man to conceive.
And He is able to do superabunfantly abovr all that we ask or even THINK.
Now you speak woderfully about God becoming a man as the heart of the matter.
Do you think Jesus came to make a "one way trip" or a "round trip?"
I mean, our need is for God to incarnated to be our Savior, the Son of God. Absolutely. He brought God into man. Can you see Him making a "round trip" of sorts? Meaning He brought God into man and went back bringing man into God?
Do you see any ground for this concept of a "round trip" rather than just a "one way trip?"
02 Feb 22
@sonship saidI believe He became a man fully and completely and did everything that He did here as a man, then when He laid down His life for us rose from the dead so that now we can say a man is seated at the right hand of the Father. He was is and always will be the Word of God.
@KellyJay
[quote] Having God become a man is really at the heart of this; what God does with us after that is all on God, not on what we think will happen. Having God call us family, sons, and daughters is to be noted; no doubt what that means remains to be seen; I think it is beyond our abilities to grasp. When we are called the temples of God that we will be His people, ...[text shortened]... ?
Do you see any ground for this concept of a "round trip" rather than just a "one way trip?"
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I believe He became a man fully and completely and did everything that He did here as a man, then when He laid down His life for us rose from the dead so that now we can say a man is seated at the right hand of the Father. He was is and always will be the Word of God.
Music to my ears! Thankyou. When I want to hear afresh the Gospel I know I can come to you.
Now, the Word of God, seated forever at the right hand of God - He no doubt is EXALTED high, highest point in all the universe and above.
What about those whom He saved? In what sense is He JOSHUA - "the Captain of Salvation?" (Heb 2:10) "Jesus" is Greek for Joshua you know? Joshua was a leader and general, a captain, bringing many others into conquest.
In what sense is He the Forerunner (Heb. 6:20) going BEFORE us somewhere?
I know this is much to ask in one post. But just a brief word on these. And in what sense is He the Firstborn among many brothers? (Rom. 8:29)
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A few questions to deniers of deification:
The Aposle Paul wrote "But we have this treasure in earthen vessels that the excellency of the power may be of God and not out of us." ( 2 Cor. 4:7 RcV)
1.) What is the - this treasure ?
2.) What is the power?
3.) Paul says "the excellency of the power". Why not just so-so in quality? Why is there with the power an "excellency?"
4.) The power is "of God and not out of us". But he also says "WE HAVE". So who is in possession of the excellency of the power - just God or God and the "WE" of the believers ? Ie. "We have this treasure"
Four questions to which I would appreciate your thoughts on all four.
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04 Feb 22
@sonship saidReal Christians don't subscribe to your deification claims. Indeed they accuse you openly of blasphemy.
@Ghost-of-a-Duke
You mean real Christians?
You mean real atheists want to answer too ?
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A few questions to deniers of deification:
See two posts or so above for the four questions. Or . . .
A few questions to deniers of deification:
The Aposle Paul wrote "But we have this treasure in earthen vessels that the excellency of the power may be of God and not out of us." ( 2 Cor. 4:7 RcV)
1.) What is the - this treasure ?
2.) What is the power?
3.) Paul says "the excellency of the power". Why not just so-so in quality? Why is there with the power an "excellency?"
4.) The power is "of God and not out of us". But he also says "WE HAVE". So who is in possession of the excellency of the power - just God or God and the "WE" of the believers ? Ie. "We have this treasure"
Four questions to which I would appreciate your thoughts on all four.
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@sonship saidNothing in 2 Cor. 4:7 speaks of man's deification.A few questions to deniers of deification:
See two posts or so above for the four questions. Or . . .
A few questions to deniers of deification:
The Aposle Paul wrote "But we have this treasure in earthen vessels that the excellency of the power may be of God and not out of us." ( 2 Cor. 4:7 RcV)
1.) What is the - this treasure ?
2. ...[text shortened]... ve this treasure"
Four questions to which I would appreciate your thoughts on all four.
I actually think it's shameful how you rake through scripture looking for random pebbles you can isolate and claim support your incorrect notion of being personally deified.
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Real Christians don't subscribe to your deification claims. Indeed they accuse you openly of blasphemy.
That is false.
The section below is not representative of all my beliefs.
It is sufficient to prove Christians (real ones) have believed and taught what they call deification - theosis - divinization in history.
Deification (Gr. theosis) is the process by which a Christian becomes more like God. St. Peter speaks of this process when he writes, “As His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness . . . you may be partakers of the divine nature” (2 Peter 1:3-4). But what does it mean to partake of the divine nature, and how to we experience it? To answer these questions, first we explain what deification is not. Then we describe what deification is.
WHAT IT’S NOT
Many people outside the Orthodox Church mistakenly believe that deification means we become literal gods. When the Church calls us to pursue godliness – to become more like God – this does not mean we then become like God in His nature; this is impossible. We are human, always have been and always will be. Thus, we cannot take on the nature of anything else, especially that of God, which is utterly unknowable to us.
St. John of Damascus (8th century) makes a remarkable observation. The word “God” in the Scriptures refers not to the divine nature or essence, but instead refers to the divine energies – the power and grace of God which we perceive in this world. The Greek word for God (Theos) used in Scripture comes from a verb meaning run, see, or burn. These are energy words, not essence (or being) words.
copied from https://www.saintjohnchurch.org/deification-orthodox-salvation/
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@Ghost-of-a-Duke
The questions are four.
Step out of the way since you only intend to say what it doesn't mean.
Let someone else give me answers to the four questions, if they wish.
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04 Feb 22
@sonship saidPlease identify one Christian on this site who has shown support for your deification claims?
@Ghost-of-a-DukeReal Christians don't subscribe to your deification claims. Indeed they accuse you openly of blasphemy.
That is false.
The section below is not representative of all my beliefs.
It is sufficient to prove Christians (real ones) have believed and taught what they call deification - theosis - divinization in history.
...[text shortened]... ) words.
copied from https://www.saintjohnchurch.org/deification-orthodox-salvation/
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04 Feb 22
@sonship saidNo.
@Ghost-of-a-Duke
The questions are four.
Step out of the way since you only intend to say what it doesn't mean.
Let someone else give me answers to the four questions, if they wish.