Spirituality
02 Aug 14
13 Aug 14
Originally posted by KellyJayWell, as I have said many times before, I am not a Christian any more. This does not alter the fact that I was a Christian in the past.
Yes, I do believe that being a Christian is having Jesus in my life, which is
something you currently deny! I grant you claimed you did, but now you
deny which means either one or the other was really true.
Originally posted by KellyJayPersonally, God in Christ is the best part of life! He is my sure foundation
who has seen me through good and bad times. I cannot see any force in
Heaven or Earth plucking me out of His hands. I can see me struggling, but
He began a work in me and trust He will complete it. That is not bragging
on me, but trusting in Him.
Without claiming to be exactly the same you, I more or less felt the same as this for almost three decades.
Originally posted by KellyJayNo it's not. It's obviously meaningful to me, and my change in beliefs is meaningful enough to you ~ by which I mean it appears to threaten or irk you in some way ~ because you have posted many many times and called me a "liar" repeatedly and even accused me of "belittling" the dead relatives of Christians, so I think my account of my loss of faith is not "meaningless" to you at all.
Just simply saying I lost my faith is about as meaningless as you can get!
Originally posted by FMFI did not accuse you of belittling dead relatives of Christians, I accused you
No it's not. It's obviously meaningful to me, and my change in beliefs is meaningful enough to you ~ by which I mean it appears to threaten or irk you in some way ~ because you have posted many many times and called me a "liar" repeatedly and even accused me of "belittling" the dead relatives of Christians, so I think my account of my loss of faith is not "meaningless" to you at all.
of belittling dead Christians who stood up for their faith in the face of all
of that.
I see you just refuse to look at the point I've been trying to get you to see.
Even now it goes over you head.
If you wish to drag this on, and I don't know why you would, okay I'm tired
of repeating myself.
Kelly
13 Aug 14
Originally posted by josephw
What is so odd is how you can claim to believe in the existence of God, yet are apparently void of any knowledge of God, but still insist that no one else does either. Irrational.
Originally posted by FMF
This is an assertion steeped in the "idealogical dogma" we have been discussing.
Your answer is plainly avoidance of the "assertion" I made. Why do you do that post after post? Why are you trying so hard to avoid making a clear statement in reply to a clear "assertion"?
The "assertion" is that you have said that you believe there is a God. The question posed is how do you know that? If you have knowledge of the existence of God, then please say what it is and how you know it.
Quit avoiding the "assertion" if you please, and demonstrate some intellectual integrity.
Originally posted by josephwThe claim [of yours] that not having an ideology that encapsulates "knowledge of God" is "irrational" of me is simply an assertion on your part. You have not attempted to explain how my belief is "irrational". It is just an opinion that you have stated in the same way as it is my opinion that God has not revealed Himself to you and therefore any idealogical dogma you seek to propagate is baseless.
Originally posted by josephw
What is so odd is how you can claim to believe in the existence of God, yet are apparently void of any knowledge of God, but still insist that no one else does either. Irrational.
Originally posted by FMF
[b]This is an assertion steeped in the "idealogical dogma" we have been discussing.
Your answer is plainly avoi ...[text shortened]... t.
Quit avoiding the "assertion" if you please, and demonstrate some intellectual integrity.[/b]
13 Aug 14
Originally posted by josephwI don't "know" it. I would describe it as an instinctive belief in much the same way as I believe that morality is essentially instinctive in most humans. However, while you may subscribe to a religionist ideology that creates/conforms to your beliefs about a God figure, I do not. Your assertion that this makes me "irrational" is interesting, I suppose, but you haven't substantiated it.
The "assertion" is that you have said that you believe there is a God. The question posed is how do you know that?
Originally posted by KellyJayWell I did not ~ and have not ~ "belittled dead Christians who stood up for their faith". You seem like you are just taking a cheap shot. When I was a Christian I "stood up for" my faith in the face of relatives and friends dying.
I did not accuse you of belittling dead relatives of Christians, I accused you of belittling dead Christians who stood up for their faith in the face of all of that.
Originally posted by KellyJayYou keep saying incorrect things about the part of my life when I was a Christian. You don't seem to understand what a change in beliefs entails. Perhaps you have never contemplated the nature of belief.
I see you just refuse to look at the point I've been trying to get you to see.
Even now it goes over you head. If you wish to drag this on, and I don't know why you would, okay I'm tired of repeating myself.
13 Aug 14
Originally posted by FMFWhat I propagate is Christian doctrine, not idealogical dogma, get that strait, and quit trying to define the terms so as to propagate your own dogma.
It is just an opinion that you have stated in the same way as it is my opinion that God has not revealed Himself to you and therefore any idealogical dogma you seek to propagate is baseless.
Explain that statement above if you will. How do you find it rational to say in one breath that it is your opinion that God has not revealed Himself to me, and at the same time determine that what I say concerning knowing God is baseless?
You should examine more closely your thought processes to see just how contradictory they may be. You're being double minded when you think you have no basis for knowledge of God, and then project that conceptualization on another mind suggesting that what they know is inferior to what you don't know.
13 Aug 14
Originally posted by FMFHold on there FMF!
Your assertion that this makes me "irrational" is interesting, I suppose, but you haven't substantiated it.
I made no assertion that "makes [you] irrational". It's a fine line, but make no mistake. I label no one. I'm referring to the concepts and ideas as irrational, not you personally.
Even if I say your thinking is irrational, don't jump to the conclusion that I'm directing a disparaging remark at you personally.
Originally posted by josephwOK then I will reword what I said slightly. While you may subscribe to a religionist ideology that creates/conforms to your beliefs about a God figure, I do not. Your assertion that this makes my ideas "irrational" is interesting, I suppose, but you haven't substantiated it.
I made no assertion that "makes [you] irrational". It's a fine line, but make no mistake. I label no one. I'm referring to the concepts and ideas as irrational, not you personally.
13 Aug 14
Originally posted by josephwYou base your dogma on something that I contend has not happened. I do not believe that God has issued any instructions to mankind, through you, or to you, or to other religionists like you. Your dogma is replete with instructions supposedly from your God figure. This is why your "knowing God" claim strikes me as "baseless".
Explain that statement above if you will. How do you find it rational to say in one breath that it is your opinion that God has not revealed Himself to me, and at the same time determine that what I say concerning knowing God is baseless?