Somebody help me...

Originally posted by FMF
Well I did not ~ and have not ~ "belittled dead Christians who stood up for their faith". You seem like you are just taking a cheap shot. When I was a Christian I "stood up for" my faith in the face of relatives and friends dying.

When you make the claim that what Christian's have isn't true, yes you do.
There have many a person die for their faith, you claim you had it, and then
you rejected it due to it not being real for you any more.
Kelly

Originally posted by FMF
You keep saying incorrect things about the part of my life when I was a Christian. You don't seem to understand what a change in beliefs entails. Perhaps you have never contemplated the nature of belief.

Explain it to me.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
When you make the claim that what Christian's have isn't true, yes you do.
There have many a person die for their faith, you claim you had it, and then
you rejected it due to it not being real for you any more.
Kelly

But I am not a Christian, KellyJay, so why would I claim that what Christians believe is "true"? What do Christians and Muslims and Hindus, for example, "dying for their faith" have to do with me?

Originally posted by KellyJay
Explain it to me.

People's beliefs can change. Yours might one day, and if it would cause you great distress, then I would not wish it upon you. It did not cause me distress, in fact I found the process and outcome positive. The fact that I no longer have Christian beliefs does not alter the fact that I did have Christian beliefs in the past.

Originally posted by FMF
People's beliefs can change. Yours might one day, and if it would cause you great distress, then I would not wish it upon you. It did not cause me distress, in fact I found the process and outcome positive. The fact that I no longer have Christian beliefs does not alter the fact that I did have Christian beliefs in the past.

You still miss the point, none of anything I have said to you had to do with
your faith, your beliefs. It all centered on the reality of Jesus in your life,
which either is a reality or not. You generating a belief, you generating your
faith does not change if Jesus is real or not, Jesus either is or is not real.
You have declared him not to be in your current position, so anything you
used to believe was about you not Jesus.
Kelly

Originally posted by FMF
But I am not a Christian, KellyJay, so why would I claim that what Christians believe is "true"? What do Christians and Muslims and Hindus, for example, "dying for their faith" have to do with me?

Other than some of them went through a great deal to force them into
denying it to remain faithful, heaven knows why you did.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
You still miss the point, none of anything I have said to you had to do with
your faith, your beliefs. It all centered on the reality of Jesus in your life,
which either is a reality or not. You generating a belief, you generating your
faith does not change if Jesus is real or not, Jesus either is or is not real.
You have declared him not to be in your current position, so anything you
used to believe was about you not Jesus.
Kelly

I accept that you sincerely believe that Jesus is a "reality" in your life, if that's what you want me to say. I have never questioned your sincerity or called you a liar.

Originally posted by FMF
I accept that you sincerely believe that Jesus is a "reality" in your life, if that's what you want me to say. I have never questioned your sincerity or called you a liar.

Yep, that is it bottom line, you accept I believe it, you just deny its true or
could be true.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
Yep, that is it bottom line, you accept I believe it, you just deny its true or
could be true.
Kelly

Well, I am no longer a Christian, if that's what you're getting at.

Originally posted by KellyJay
Other than some of them went through a great deal to force them into
denying it to remain faithful, heaven knows why you did.

Heaven knows why I did? Well I've discussed it with you on several other threads over the years and yet here you are saying you have no idea. Here it is: the credibility of the one thing that underpins everything that a Christian believes crumbled and disappeared as I subjected it to honest and rigorous scrutiny and contemplation.

Originally posted by FMF
Heaven knows why I did? Well I've discussed it with you on several other threads over the years and yet here you are saying you have no idea. Here it is: the credibility of the one thing that underpins everything that a Christian believes crumbled and disappeared as I subjected it to honest and rigorous scrutiny and contemplation.

No, you never told me why, and honestly I thought it was personal so
I never asked.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
No, you never told me why, and honestly I thought it was personal so
I never asked.

I have told you several times ~ I have answered your direct questions about it in the past, several times ~ and you have participated on threads that I started, several times, in order to discuss the matter and canvass the views of others.

Originally posted by FMF
Well, I am no longer a Christian, if that's what you're getting at.

No, but after pages of trying to get you to see, I give up your blind to it.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
No, but after pages of trying to get you to see, I give up your blind to it.
Kelly

Blind to what? I am no longer a Christian, so that's why I don't think what you believe is "true". There is nothing "blind" about this. And I have been crystal clear about it since the get go.

Originally posted by FMF
I have told you several times ~ I have answered your direct questions about it in the past, several times ~ and you have participated on threads that I started, several times, in order to discuss the matter and canvass the views of others.

You never said that I can recall, this is what made me lose my faith.
Maybe you did, I don't remember you doing that, and I believe I'd
remember something like that. If you did and I don't recall, I'm sorry
for not remembering!
Kelly