The book of Revelation

@FMF

Is it important to you to claim that it was the same writer?

Not surprised that you dodge my question by means of asking me one.

It is important to me that the early "church fathers" who believed John of the twelve wrote Revelation were CLOSER by over a thousand plus years to the events, are deemed significant in their view. It is somewhat important to me that we do not flippantly dismiss this early general opinion in favor of some "Johnny come lately" dude eager to write a dissertation for a higher degree, argue that a much latter viewpoint is more reliable.

If you want me to consider more the case that the disciple John as an aged man did not [edited] pen the Revelation, please find me some voices in the first 300 years of the inception of the Christian church arguing such. I'll start my skepticism, if any, there.

@sonship said
@FMF

Is it important to you to claim that it was the same writer?

Not surprised that you dodge my question by means of asking me one.

But I did answer it. I answered it with a three paragraph post. Head on. I didn't dodge your question at all.

@sonship said
@FMF
It is important to me that the early "church fathers" who believed John of the twelve wrote Revelation were CLOSER by over a thousand plus years to the events, are deemed significant in their view. It is somewhat important to me that we do not flippantly dismiss this early general opinion in favor of some "Johnny come lately" dude eager to write a dissertation for a higher degree, argue that a much latter viewpoint is more reliable.

As far as I know, the analysis I am talking about dates back to the 2nd century.

What or who does "Johnny come lately dude eager to write a dissertation for a higher degree" refer to?

@FMF

As far as I know, the analysis I am talking about dates back to the 2nd century

Then put up your evidence of that to be considered.

And you can now answer me. You want to be a x Christian who has decided it is more realistic to doubt totally the Bible.

How is considering a DIFFERENT John or different multiple people wrote either Revelation or the Gospel after the name of John ?

How does that amplify your rationalizations to discard the Bible and the faith it engenders?

Multiple writers of Revelation none of which were John enceases your skepticism about it?

@sonship said
@FMF

As far as I know, the analysis I am talking about dates back to the 2nd century

Then put up your evidence of that to be considered.

And you can now answer me. You want to be a x Christian who has decided it is more realistic to doubt totally the Bible.

How is considering a DIFFERENT John or different multiple people wrote either Revelati ...[text shortened]... ?

How does that amplify your rationalizations to discard the Bible and the faith it engenders?

Questioning my deep seated and longstanding assumptions about - and faith in - the veracity of the Book of Revelation - its authorship, its supposed source, its content, its purpose - was the beginning of the end of my faith. It doesn't need to be for you. Just believe it if it works for you.

@sonship said
Then put up your evidence of that to be considered.

You should perhaps look into the debate about the authorship of the material attributed to "John" if your interest is genuine. Or don't. It's up to you.

@sonship said
Multiple writers of Revelation none of which were John enceases your skepticism about it?

Multiple writers writing about "visions" some unidentified person called "John" just so happens to claim he had?

@sonship said
@KellyJay

It is the climax of the revelation of the whole Bible.
And I have read it aloud, sang it, prayed with it too. And of course I study in it still every year.

Once me and two other guys sat in the town center and read aloud about the first four chapters. And we were quite blessed with the enjoyment of doing so.

I believe John wrote Revelation before he wrote the Gospel of John.

I believe Revelation and Genesis are the two books people and the devil have the most issues with due to the ramifications if they reflect reality or not! Genesis is the beginning where it all starts, and Revelation is where this universe ends. All books in between those two will be without a doubt viewed differently depending on if these two are real or not!

God gives John this Revelation, and in doing so, tells John to write things down. There is a blessing for the readers of these words, and those that hear them read! In the end, we also see a curse for those who add to or take away from this Revelation. It is an essential portion of scripture, not one to be cast aside.

Revelation 22:
“I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify to you about these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star.”

The Spirit and the Bride say, “Come.” And let the one who hears say, “Come.” And let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who desires take the water of life without price.

I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

He who testifies to these things says, “Surely I am coming soon.” Amen. Come, Lord Jesus!

The grace of the Lord Jesus be with all. Amen.

@KellyJay

The grace of the Lord Jesus be with all. Amen.

The Recovery Version translates "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ be with all the saints. Amen"

The footnote says

Some ancient authorities omit, the saints, Amen.

I prefer the "with all the saints. Amen" . The grace of the Lord is with those who believe in the Lord.

"all God's people" or
"all the saints" or
"all you saints" or
"with God's holy people" or
"be with all the Holy Ones"

I prefer those to "with everyone" or
"with all" or
"with you all".

I checked other English translations on Rev. 22:21.

https://biblehub.com/revelation/22-21.htm

The Triune God is seen in Revelation chapter one in the salutation.

"John to the seven churches which are in Asia:

Grace to you and peace from Him who is and who was and who is coming,

and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne,

And from Jesus Christ, the faithful Witness, the Firstborn of the dead, and the Ruler of the kings of the earth. To Him who loves us and has released us from our sins by His blood." (1:4-5)

The Father is Him who is and who was and who is coming.

The Holy Spirit is the seven Spirits of God.

The Son is Jesus Christ the Faithful Witness and Firstborn of the dead.

The three-one God, the Trinity is indicated in the salutation.

@kellyjay said
I believe Revelation and Genesis are the two books people and the devil have the most issues with

Ah I see what you did there. But do you see it I wonder?

Inferring that people who have issues with Revelation are like Satan himself.

In order words those of us here who are challenging you are your erroneous interpretation of the book are like Satan.

You really are a nasty piece of work at times.

@sonship said
The three-one God, the Trinity is indicated in the salutation.

Trinitarians would of course interpret it that way.

@kellyjay said
I believe Revelation and Genesis are the two books people and the devil have the most issues with due to the ramifications if they reflect reality or not! Genesis is the beginning where it all starts, and Revelation is where this universe ends. All books in between those two will be without a doubt viewed differently depending on if these two are real or not!

God gives Jo ...[text shortened]... Surely I am coming soon.” Amen. Come, Lord Jesus!

The grace of the Lord Jesus be with all. Amen.

Genesis is not the oldest book in the Bible, Job is. If you read Job you will notice something interesting. There is nothing that sounds familiar in it, no Israel, no Patriarchs, and the animals described sound like from a bygone era.

As for Revelation, compare the "beasts" described in Daniel to the one in Revelation. If you do, you will see that the last beast described has symmetry with the one described in Daniel. In short, it is just another version of what Daniel was describing.

@whodey

Genesis is not the oldest book in the Bible, Job is. If you read Job you will notice something interesting. There is nothing that sounds familiar in it, no Israel, no Patriarchs, and the animals described sound like from a bygone era.

But we do read of Job offering sacrifices to God for the sins of his children. This is pre-Law of Moses.

@divegeester

Trinitarians would of course interpret it that way.

And Unitarians, covert or overt, would have trouble even seeing Christ the Son of God as reigning forever and ever.