The book of Revelation

@kellyjay said
It is a scriptural thing to do, it isn't me the scriptures tell us to, you don't think you are above the scriptures I assume.

If the scriptures tell us examine yourselves to see if we are in the faith, don't you think that the scriptures mean examine ourselves to see if we are in the faith?

We are to test ourselves how? What is it that we are to be looking for?

Its a Biblical question!

Ask yourself that question. Like I said, it is you that deny the teachings and commandments of Christ. You examine yourself.

@rajk999 said
Ask yourself that question. Like I said, it is you that deny the teachings and commandments of Christ. You examine yourself.

I've not ever denied the teachings of, or commandments of Christ. I have put it to you according to scripture what is it is that we are to see that shows us we are in the faith?

@kellyjay said
I've not ever denied the teachings of, or commandments of Christ. I have put it to you according to scripture what is it is that we are to see that shows us we are in the faith?

I put it to you according to scripture what is it is Jesus said that we are to DO to get eternal life in the Kingdom of God?

@rajk999 said
I put it to you according to scripture what is it is Jesus said that we are to DO to get eternal life in the Kingdom of God?

I'll answer your question if you'd answer mine that has been put to you several times now.

@fmf said
What about the notion that the whole 'Jesus rose from the dead' thing is a metaphor and not literally true?

Perhaps you are a metaphor and not really real.

@whodey said
Perhaps you are a metaphor and not really real.

OK, but what about the notion that the whole 'Jesus rose from the dead' thing is a metaphor and not literally true?

@fmf said
OK, but what about the notion that the whole 'Jesus rose from the dead' thing is a metaphor and not literally true?

For example, would you view such a notion as being "evil"?

@whodey said
You are free to continue to say that any reference to hell or the second death or damnation is simply metaphorical. In fact, you could use this line of reasoning with pretty much anything in the Bible to splain it away.

I’m directly addressing the use of language in the written text, the syntax, the use of metaphor and simile to convey a story.

You of course are free to ignore this fact and attempt to claim that I’m making something up. This allows you to dodge the point in my post, ignore what is actually written in the bible and hold on to your right-wing notions of vengeance and torture for the people who don’t subscribe to your religion.

@kellyjay said
Revelation 1 English Standard Version (ESV)
John to the seven churches that are in Asia:
Grace to you and peace from him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven spirits who are before his throne, and from Jesus Christ the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of kings on earth.
To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by hi ...[text shortened]... d ruler of kings on earth.

This introduction is quite different than any other book of scripture.

Revelation 1 English Standard Version (ESV)
“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”
I, John, your brother and partner in the tribulation and the kingdom and the patient endurance that are in Jesus, was on the island called Patmos on account of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus. I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet saying, “Write what you see in a book and send it to the seven churches, to Ephesus and to Smyrna and to Pergamum and to Thyatira and to Sardis and to Philadelphia and to Laodicea.”

Now a direct quote from the Lord God, identifying Himself, there are many books of scripture that don't have God talking in them, this is not only one that does, but God is the reason the book was written according to the text.

John is instructed to write down what he is about to see, we can either accept these verse as they clearly say, or not.

@kellyjay said
Revelation 1 English Standard Version (ESV)
“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”

Interestingly and a side issue, this is Jesus speaking, not the father. I.e. Jesus is calling himself “The Almighty”. Furthermore, there is only ONE alpha & omega , not three.

Jesus calling himself the Almighty God. What would Galveston75 say about that I wonder. Anyway, you’re a trinitarian KellyJay, what do you think about it?

@divegeester said
Interestingly and a side issue, this is Jesus speaking, not the father. I.e. Jesus is calling himself “The Almighty”. Furthermore, there is only ONE alpha & omega , not three.

Jesus calling himself the Almighty God. What would Galveston75 say about that I wonder. Anyway, you’re a trinitarian KellyJay, what do you think about it?

However, when he says that "I am the Alpha and the Omega", this does not make him two, does it?

@kellyjay said
Revelation 1 English Standard Version (ESV)
“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”
I, John, your brother and partner in the tribulation and the kingdom and the patient endurance that are in Jesus, was on the island called Patmos on account of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus. I was in the Spirit o ...[text shortened]... to write down what he is about to see, we can either accept these verse as they clearly say, or not.

Revelation 1 English Standard Version (ESV)
Then I turned to see the voice that was speaking to me, and on turning I saw seven golden lampstands, and in the midst of the lampstands one like a son of man, clothed with a long robe and with a golden sash around his chest. The hairs of his head were white, like white wool, like snow. His eyes were like a flame of fire, his feet were like burnished bronze, refined in a furnace, and his voice was like the roar of many waters. In his right hand he held seven stars, from his mouth came a sharp two-edged sword, and his face was like the sun shining in full strength.

When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. But he laid his right hand on me, saying, “Fear not, I am the first and the last, and the living one. I died, and behold I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of Death and Hades. Write therefore the things that you have seen, those that are and those that are to take place after this. As for the mystery of the seven stars that you saw in my right hand, and the seven golden lampstands, the seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches.

The text isn't speaking about a powderpuff softy of all love and cuddles, the Jesus who is going to be judging all of us, is not one whose words we should hold in contempt, pretending what He was said isn't what He meant! We should not think what He said He was going to do, that He would lie about that. He should not be considered as only an all-loving and not in the least bit dangerous god of our own making. Throughout the whole Bible, straight through all of the Old Testament and the New Testament, He is a Holy God who changes not!

@suzianne said
However, when he says that "I am the Alpha and the Omega", this does not make him two, does it?

Oh dear...

@kellyjay said
Revelation 1 English Standard Version (ESV)
Then I turned to see the voice that was speaking to me, and on turning I saw seven golden lampstands, and in the midst of the lampstands one like a son of man, clothed with a long robe and with a golden sash around his chest. The hairs of his head were white, like white wool, like snow. His eyes were like a flame of fire, his feet ...[text shortened]... , straight through all of the Old Testament and the New Testament, He is a Holy God who changes not!

Revelation 2 English Standard Version (ESV)
“To the angel of the church in Ephesus write: ‘The words of him who holds the seven stars in his right hand, who walks among the seven golden lampstands.

“‘I know your works, your toil and your patient endurance, and how you cannot bear with those who are evil, but have tested those who call themselves apostles and are not, and found them to be false. I know you are enduring patiently and bearing up for my name's sake, and you have not grown weary. But I have this against you, that you have abandoned the love you had at first. Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent, and do the works you did at first. If not, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place, unless you repent. Yet this you have: you hate the works of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who conquers I will grant to eat of the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.’

The Lord is telling the church to repent and return to our first love, this is not something that should be ignored. We are to love God and each other, do we? Our works will be a reflection of our heart, we cannot get holy to be accepted by God, we get accepted by God to live holy lives. It is all God, He is always comes first, He is always preeminent.

@kellyjay said
Revelation 2 English Standard Version (ESV)To the angel of the church in Ephesus write: ‘The words of him who holds the seven stars in his right hand, who walks among the seven golden lampstands.

You have claimed that all of Revelation is literal. Are you sure?

Are there seven literal stars being held in someone’s literal hand while they walk among several literal lamp stands?

Or do you think this is a metaphor?

I look forward to you demonstrating your “love” by continuing to ignore me.