The book of Revelation

Ah yes, the ubiquitous solitary thumbs down.

That makes my point completely moot. 🙄

@kellyjay said
Revelation 2 English Standard Version (ESV)
“To the angel of the church in Ephesus write: ‘The words of him who holds the seven stars in his right hand, who walks among the seven golden lampstands.

“‘I know your works, your toil and your patient endurance, and how you cannot bear with those who are evil, but have tested those who call themselves apostles and are not, and ...[text shortened]... ccepted by God to live holy lives. It is all God, He is always comes first, He is always preeminent.

“And the bezan shall be huge and black, and the eyes thereof red with the blood of living creatures, and the whore of Babylon shall ride forth on a three-headed serpent, and throughout the lands, there'll be a great rubbing of parts...”
Scene 15 Blood & Thunder prophet

All literal...

@kellyjay said
Revelation 2 English Standard Version (ESV)
And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write: ‘The words of the first and the last, who died and came to life.

“‘I know your tribulation and your poverty (but you are rich) and the slander of those who say that they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan. Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil ...[text shortened]... t by it! Also Jesus tells us that Satan is real and has followers that claim to be Jews but are not.

@kellyjay said
Revelation 2 English Standard Version (ESV)

“And to the angel of the church in Pergamum write: ‘The words of him who has the sharp two-edged sword.
“‘I know where you dwell, where Satan's throne is. Yet you hold fast my name, and you did not deny my faith even in the days of Antipas my faithful witness, who was killed among you, where Satan dwells. But I have a few thing ...[text shortened]... ife things that must be looked at in light of eternity not just the here and now as if this were it.

@divegeester

I am reading with interest and benefit the things KJ is exlpaining.

Please don't think the forum is defined by only perpetual arguing with you.
You want to get Christians to speak things to help your criticisms. If they do not say what you want them to say you boast of being evaded.

This repetitious cycle of Ie. - "You are not saying what I put into your mouth, so are not responding to me." is worse than a monologue or blog on a discussion forum.

Your basic point has been made loud . Ie. "Revelation contains figurative language, allegories, signs, therefore I am justified to dismiss conscious eternal punishment as not the truth... t'will never happen."

Most of us have got it. You cannot force everybody to adapt your view. When one makes an honest attempt to demonstrate that your logic doesn't do the same thing for all of us that it does for you, you too cannot be forced to agree.

So let the man "blog." You can always start another thread on your view and blog to yourself as well. If you explain your alternative interpretation to Rev. 20:10 as asked you can notify me to go over there and see it. Don't bother though if it is just "It is probably allegorical".

The leap forward for me in my grasp of the second and third chapter of Revelation was in reading Watchman Nee's book -

The Orthodoxy of the Church

https://www.ministrybooks.org/books.cfm?id=23CF

The seven letters are also a prophecy of the development, degradation, recovery of the Christian church on the earth from the initial stage of the Church to the second coming.

In such few words of those two chapters Nee outlined the major aspects of the problems and triumphs of the Christian church in symbolic language, covering the early church to the second coming of Christ.

IMO enough insight in that book to supply the seeking Christian for another 400 -500 years should the Lord tarry to return. The Holy Spirit leads us into all the truth, as Jesus promised.

The Preface of "The Orthodoxy of the Church" by Watchman Nee.

The preface was written by Witness Lee his co-worker.

PREFACE TO THE ENGLISH EDITION
I have never met a servant of the Lord so balanced as Brother Watchman Nee. He is rich in life, and he is also rich in knowledge. He knows and loves the Lord, and he knows and loves the Bible too. He knows Christ, and he also knows the church. He is for Christ, and he is also for the church. Thus, his ministry has been always balanced with two sides—the spiritual and the practical. Books such as The Normal Christian Life; Sit, Walk, Stand; What Shall This Man Do?; The Spiritual Man; The Release of the Spirit; The Song of Songs; Love Not the World; The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob; The Glorious Church; and many others which have not yet been translated into English contain messages given by him on the spiritual side. On the practical side, there are The Assembly Life (messages given and published in 1934), The Normal Christian Church Life (messages given in 1937 and published in 1938), The Orthodoxy of the Church (messages given and published in 1945), Further Talks on the Church Life (messages given and published within the period of 1948 through 1951), and Church Affairs (messages given in 1948 and published in 1949-1950). The messages on the spiritual side are principally concerned with the matters of spiritual life, while those on the practical side are absolutely concerned with the practice of the church life, i.e., the way to practice the church life. Spiritual life, of course, is vital to us. But the practice of the church life is also necessary. Most Christians pay much attention to the spiritual life but neglect the practice of the church. Some Christian teachers even stress the spiritual life but oppose the practice of the church life. Brother Nee, however, is adequately balanced in these two matters. He not only takes the commission of the spiritual life, but also bears the burden of the practice of the church life. He has a clear vision of both, and he is faithful to the Lord for the spiritual life as well as honest to His people regarding the practice of the church life. He realizes that even if we are rich in the spiritual life but do not have the proper practice of the church life, we are still short of the purpose of God. Therefore, he emphasizes both of these matters. May we also be so balanced and give adequate attention to both sides.

@sonship said
@divegeester

I am reading with interest and benefit the things KJ is exlpaining.

Please don't think the forum is defined by only perpetual arguing with you.
You want to get Christians to speak things to help your criticisms. If they do not say what you want them to say you boast of being evaded.

This repetitious cycle of Ie. - "You are not saying what I put int ...[text shortened]... go over there and see it. Don't bother though if it is just [i]"It is probably allegorical".

@divegeester

KellyJay does himself and his forum credibility no favours by systematically ignoring posters who disagree with him such as FMF, myself and others in order to avoid challenge and scrutiny of his often weak arguments.

@sonship said
@divegeester

KellyJay does himself and his forum credibility no favours by systematically ignoring posters who disagree with him such as FMF, myself and others in order to avoid challenge and scrutiny of his often weak arguments.

YOU systematically IGNORE fair exchange of challenges sent BACK your way.

There is no mandatory rule that he HAS to do him ...[text shortened]... y experience with you, NO procedural high-ground do you possess so as to cast dispersions on anyone.

@KellyJay

Where I will draw the line is when things are said, when words that were used get changed into other words and meanings purposely misrepresented from my intent. That is unacceptable, yet it is possible that can happen when attempting to acquire understanding and clarification by resaying what you think they meant back to them in other words; however, when it is declared something completely different than the original intent, then ignoring correction! It isn't any longer an equitable, fair exchange, not worth the effort to continue about that conversation or any other.

@sonship said
@KellyJay

[quote] Where I will draw the line is when things are said, when words that were used get changed into other words and meanings purposely misrepresented from my intent. That is unacceptable, yet it is possible that can happen when attempting to acquire understanding and clarification by resaying what you think they meant back to them in other words; however, when ...[text shortened]... ow him why such a problem that he has with my faith is not a problem for me because of this or that.

@KellyJay

Today is not a good day for me to talk from a high ground of behavior.
I am returning provocation with provocation on a poster.

@sonship said
@KellyJay

Today is not a good day for me to talk from a high ground of behavior.
I am returning provocation with provocation on a poster.