The Garden of Eden

Originally posted by KellyJay
The garden was planted before sin:

Genesis 2:
7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

8 And the Lord God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

Yes, as said twice already, I accept that god created life without the need for death pre-sin. Post sin death is always required for life, both natural and spiritual.

Originally posted by divegeester
Yes, as said twice already, I accept that god created life without the need for death pre-sin. Post sin death is always required for life, both natural and spiritual.

No, I would not say it was a requirement since we seen God create it without
death. In a sinful world God works all things together for our good, so He uses
even death, but isn't required for life.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
No, I would not say it was a requirement since we seen God create it without
death. In a sinful world God works all things together for our good, so He uses
even death, but isn't required for life.
Kelly

Spiritual examples:

OT - blood sacrifices were required daily

NT - Christ's atoning death is required for access to spiritual life and we are required to "die daily"

I find it strange that you are a Christian and cannot see the concept of how death is required for life.

Natural examples:

All vegetables we eat are living things and are killed to sustain life

All meat we eat was slaughtered in order to sustain life

Originally posted by divegeester
Spiritual examples:

OT - blood sacrifices were required daily

NT - Christ's atoning [b]death is required for access to spiritual life and we are required to "die daily"

I find it strange that you are a Christian and cannot see the concept of how death is required for life.

Natural examples:

All vegetables we eat are living things and are killed to sustain life

All meat we eat was slaughtered in order to sustain life[/b]

When God created life He did so without death.
So after the fall, God uses it to do a lot of things, it does not mean it was
required had there been no fall.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
So after the fall, God uses it to do a lot of things, it does not mean it was
required had there been no fall.
Kelly

But there WAS the fall... 😕

And because of the fall death IS required for all forms of life.

Examples in my previous post.

Originally posted by divegeester
But there WAS the fall... 😕

And because of the fall death IS required for all forms of life.

Examples in my previous post.

I think we disagree on what the word 'require' means. If it can be done without
it, it is not required as far as I am concern. If it can be used to do, but
does not have to be there, it is not required as far as I'm concern. Required
means as I understand the word, you must have it, or it cannot be done.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
I think we disagree on what the word 'require' means. If it can be done without
it, it is not required as far as I am concern. If it can be used to do, but
does not have to be there, it is not required as far as I'm concern. Required
means as I understand the word, you must have it, or it cannot be done.
Kelly

Yes I think you are talking about perfection pre-fall; I am talking about current state where death is, if you like, a necessary evil, for want of a better word. However, death is certainly the access to life where the Christian experience and spiritual regeneration is concerned. Christ died, we die daily, animal sacrifices in the OT and normal life is no longer sustainable without some death.

Think back to my OP about the soil in the Garden of Eden; when it was first created it would have been perfect soil with no decaying matter in it. Once sin entered there was death and we see that the first death was the animals who died to provide the skins to cover the shame of Adam and Eve. Death was now a necessity for life.

Originally posted by divegeester
Yes I think you are talking about perfection pre-fall; I am talking about current state where death is, if you like, a necessary evil, for want of a better word. However, death is certainly the access to life where the Christian experience and spiritual regeneration is concerned. Christ died, we die daily, animal sacrifices in the OT and normal life is n ...[text shortened]... ied to provide the skins to cover the shame of Adam and Eve. Death was now a necessity for life.

Are you in love with death?

Yes, the perfection before the fall there wasn't death, we agree.
I'd also point out to you that God was doing a very good thing with that
universe too. The fall and evil as it entered our lives, is nothing but a bump
in the road. It is with us now, but only for a short time throughout eternity.

God is doing a work and it will not be hindered, He will have a universe that
is faultless, sinless, where we actually love one another, where lions and
lambs lay down together and it will be no big deal.

Regeneration only puts us where we should have always been, sacrifices
were not required before the fall.

Death is an enemy, who will like Satan be cast into the lake of fire.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
Are you in love with death?

What a strange thing to say.

Do you find me talking about the OT animal sacrifices and NT death of Christ disturbing?

Originally posted by divegeester
What a strange thing to say.

Do you find me talking about the OT animal sacrifices and NT death of Christ disturbing?

No, I find you trying to make death so important to life that you seem to want
to make it essential to the whole process. While in reality it is an enemy no
different than Satan himself.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
No, I find you trying to make death so important to life that you seem to want to make it essential to the whole process. While in reality it is an enemy no different than Satan himself.

I can't "make" anything, this is just a discussion about the garden of Eden and the implications of the soil on the claimed temporal reality and literal presence of the Tree of Life.

Originally posted by FMF
Does that mean that galveston75's personal opinion on this issue is an example of what you often refer to as a "self-certified opinion"?

sorry but you are incapable of rational thought, when you tell us why smoking cigarettes is not a defilement of the body as you have stated despite the heaps of evidence that were presented to you, let is know, for until such times it is evident that its futile to attempt to engage you in rational debate by virtue of you being incapable of it.

Originally posted by divegeester
I can't "make" anything, this is just a discussion about the garden of Eden and the implications of the soil on the claimed temporal reality and literal presence of the Tree of Life.

was it spiritual allegorical soil? like the trees?

Originally posted by divegeester
I can't "make" anything, this is just a discussion about the garden of Eden and the implications of the soil on the claimed temporal reality and literal presence of the Tree of Life.

"... claimed temporal reality and literal presence of the Tree of Life"

Well heck, just say what you want if all it is, is a claimed temporal reality.
Kelly

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
sorry but you are incapable of rational thought, when you tell us why smoking cigarettes is not a defilement of the body as you have stated despite the heaps of evidence that were presented to you, let is know, for until such times it is evident that its futile to attempt to engage you in rational debate by virtue of you being incapable of it.

You are simply trying too hard to be funny, robbie.