17 Sep 19
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@philokalia saidChuntering on about "Orthodox theology" doesn't make up for your inability to make any kind of moral case for the stuff you believe when you are talking to someone like me; yes, so OK, it might serve you well when you are preaching to the choir, but what does that achieve if the choir believes in the morally incoherent torturer god ideology too?
Actually, the beliefs are drawn directly from what I can take from Orthodox theology. It is called theology commonly. I do not think I am being arrogant by using the word.
I cite the people that are the creators of the theology because they are important figures and I just can't steal credit for very old ideas.
The arguments that they provide are well reasoned.
...[text shortened]... the Bible is the best that anyone can do when talking about Christianity -- unless you are a Saint!
Your admiration for "Saints" and "important figures" has not equipped you to talk about the morality of what you believe.
The "Saints" and "important figures" agree with you, so what? Or you're just reciting what you have rote-learned, so what?
Citing "Saints" and "important figures" that provide you with your confirmation bias is just another variant of the whole "It is because it is" kind of discourse that your ideology of moral nonsense relies so heavily on.
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17 Sep 19
@whodey saidYour vengeful mindset is noted.
I have to say, the more I observe the evil in this world, and the unrepentant nature of those who carry it out who defy all reason and logic, the more I see the need for hell.
Hell is "game over".
And may it end soon.
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17 Sep 19
1 edit
@sonship saidLet it be noted that sonship has brought up his “space aliens” debacle, not me. No I am not interested in this topic, it’s just you throwing out counter measures in a desperate attempt to change the subject.
@divegeester
Seeing as how your squirming your lightweight unprincipled OP avoiding way through this thread I presume you won't be questioning my integrity again in a hurry.
Still sore that you said something like "on other worlds" when I didn't?
Still sore that you pushed space aliens and got caught exaggerating my use of the phrase "other worlds"? ...[text shortened]... I called out the lie of Divegeester's repeated pushing of my so-called wacky space alien references.
If you don’t want me hauling you and your revolting dogma over the rank in threads like this then I suggest you don’t question my integrity when I tell you that your version of Jesus burns people alive. That’s right those words, those very words.
The challenge to you and the other subject avoiders, SecondSon and KellyJay is still there in my OP waiting to be proved wrong.
Feel free, any time.
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17 Sep 19
@secondson saidAnytime you want to come back to me with your promised “serious and considered” response to the straightforward challenge in the OP please feel completely free to do so.
Is that what you think the verses in question are saying?
You're the one that said it dumbo. You're the one saying that Jesus is "in hell overseeing".
No one else said that. The scriptures don't say that. Only an idiot would say that.
You're a disingenuous and intellectually dishonest boob.
17 Sep 19
@philokalia saidIf I am still being tortured in burning flames in 10,000,000 years from now because I found Christian doctrine to be non-credible, what would be the moral purpose of inflicting that violence on me, and what would be the reason for doing it if it has no corrective function on me [dead, or being kept supernaturally conscious so that I can suffer for my thoughtcrimes while alive] or anyone else [still living, and unconvinced of the truth of your torture mumbo-jumbo ~ i.e "guilty" of thoughtcrimes while they are alive]?
Actually, the beliefs are drawn directly from what I can take from Orthodox theology.
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17 Sep 19
@philokalia saidI don’t interpret any of these scriptures in the way you an your cronies do. It is SecondSon, sonship and KellyJay who do.It’s amusing watching you all desperately trying to avoid the topic in the OP.
It specifies it as a punishment for those who worship the beast, correct?
Why would you conclude that it is broader automatically?
...
How do you interpret the references in hell to the gospel? Is it the case that I can't be absolutely certain of the interpretation of a couple passages that you stretch the meaning of, but you can dismiss those passages and others as simile with no extra analysis?
Your tact so far has been to be absolutely adamant that God will burn people alive, but try to appear unsure about how many or for what reason.
Your version of Jesus burns non Christians alive for eternity. You’ve admitted it.
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17 Sep 19
1 edit
@fmf said“What if Jesus love demands hell? “
"Hey there people who have God figures other than mine! My one will torture you for eternity if you don't believe in Him. It stands to reason. No, wait. That makes Him sound bad. So. Let's try this. You will torture yourself for eternity if you don't believe in Him. That's right. It stands to reason. And if you think I am talking nonsense, I believe you will be tortured by way ...[text shortened]... to reason. This has been revealed to me by the creator being. Top writers will back me on this."
KellyJay
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17 Sep 19
1 edit
SecondSon still hasn’t decided if Jesus burns people alive in Hell is a metaphorical Jesus within a literal hell or a metaphorical Jesus within a metaphorical Hell where people are burned alive but not by Jesus.
Or maybe it is just the spiritual naughty step where KellyJay’s love of Jesus which demands hell is just a bit of a telling off.
Difficult choices when the consequence is abandoning what’s been drummed into you all your Christian life.
17 Sep 19
@fmf saidI do not know what sends people to hell.
If I am still being tortured in burning flames in 10,000,000 years from now because I found Christian doctrine to be non-credible, what would be the moral purpose of inflicting that violence on me, and what would be the reason for doing it if it has no corrective function on me [dead, or being kept supernaturally conscious so that I can suffer for my thoughtcrimes while alive] or ...[text shortened]... nced of the truth of your torture mumbo-jumbo ~ i.e "guilty" of thoughtcrimes while they are alive]?
But let us say that it is the case -- for it is a distinct possibility for any person who consciously rejects the Gospel.
What is the "moral purpose" of you being there?
If you mean, what was the cause, it was hearing the Gospel, rejecting it, and never repenting for your sins and attempting to live up to yourself as an image bearer of God.
Since you have an immortal and powerful soul, if you choose to be separate from God, you are eternally separate from Him, as you have willed it. The consequence of a willed separation from God and rejection of His Gospel and repentance is hell -- the separation from God, in which the purifying light of God is likened to fire.
You are a rational agent, and you choose and act independently. Why should you not be held accountable for your sins, and your own existence?
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17 Sep 19
@philokalia saidThe third thing that you don’t know!
I do not know what sends people to hell.
But you ARE adamant that people will be burnt in Hell for eternity, right? That bit you ARE sure of?
Let’s acquiescence on what doesn’t matter but hold onto the gritty bit which does matter...
Spotted your tactics philokalia.
17 Sep 19
@divegeester saidWhy would I, who knows little, be sure of such?
I don’t interpret any of these scriptures in the way you an your cronies do. It is SecondSon, sonship and KellyJay who do.It’s amusing watching you all desperately trying to avoid the topic in the OP.
Your tact so far has been to be absolutely adamant that God will burn people alive, but try to appear unsure about how many or for what reason.
Your version of Jesus burns non Christians alive for eternity. You’ve admitted it.
Does not the Bible say...
Judge not lest ye be judged (Matthew 7:1) and do not worry about tomorrow (Matthew 6:34)?
Matthew 6:8 also talks about how the Father knows what we need before we ask Him. He knows more than we can ever know.
I am not omniscient, and I do not know these things.
This is the first time a Christian has suggested that I should know these things.
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17 Sep 19
1 edit
@philokalia saidOh now you “know little” and you cannot “be sure”...
Why would I, who knows little, be sure of such?
But you have said that ARE sure, that you know that people will be burnt alive in Hell, right?
Even though you don’t know (let’s make a list):
- how they are sent there
- why they are sent there
- whether they will just be non Christians
- whether or not “that scripture” says Jesus the Lamb will be overseeing it
- what pretty much anything means about anything
EXCEPT that people WILL be burned alive in Hell, you ARE certain of that.