The god who burns people alive for eternity

@secondson said
The "moral purpose" can be found in the nature of God.

OK let's add it to the self-parody list too.

'Hell is hell', 'It's real because it's real', 'people are tormented because they are tormented', 'It lasts forever because it lasts forever', and all this is because 'It is because it is', 'It's real because God said so', AND, now:

'The moral purpose can be found in the nature of God'.

This kind of rhetoric is profoundly evasive.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Yes, that 'is' what the Bible says. So why on Earth would a moral human being be cool with such a horrendous representation of the divine?

What makes you think anyone here is "cool with such a horrendous" thing as Hell? I believe it is the a horrible thing, but my likes and dislikes are not the yardsticks by which truth is a reality. If that were true, there would be no children dying, no rapes and murders, no stealing from the poor, and on and on. I believe it is the truth, no matter how I feel about, I don't want any to go there, because there is no coming back from that.

@fmf said
But why is the punishment torture though? Why is that the "perfectly moral" punishment?

God's judgments are perfect.

Separation from the life and love of God in a perpetual state of darkness can in no wise be considered anything less than punishment and torment.

Use that gift of imagination and try to comprehend who God is. It is because of who God is and His very nature that sin must be punished.

Imagine this: there is creator, and there is creation. God has no equal. God is the only one of His kind. Everything else is His creation.

If and when you begin to understand who and what God is, then you will begin to know "why."

@secondson said
God's judgments are perfect.

Separation from the life and love of God in a perpetual state of darkness can in no wise be considered anything less than punishment and torment.

Use that gift of imagination and try to comprehend who God is. It is because of who God is and His very nature that sin must be punished.

Imagine this: there is creator, and there is creation. ...[text shortened]... tion.

If and when you begin to understand who and what God is, then you will begin to know "why."

I don't think the question is one for you to answer.

Here is what I asked: But why is the punishment torture though? Why is that the "perfectly moral" punishment?

The "torture" I am asking KellyJay/sonship about is the neverending torment in burning flames which inflicts the worst physical agony that humans can experience.

I am asking KellyJay/sonship why THAT is the "perfectly moral" punishment.

You say you don't believe in 'neverending torment in burning flames', so the question is not for you.

@fmf said
What do you think the fact that you believe it is evidence of?

That is a spurious question.

Ones belief isn't evidence of anything. The fact that one believes is only an expression of faith.

The "evidence" is in everything that exists objectively around you.

The error is in you. Like Jesus said, "By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:"

But to those who by faith believe, Jesus says, "But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear."

@ghost-of-a-duke said
The notion is comical enough for me to assign the whole book to the dustbin.

Only religion can have a moral human being seeing no problem with a 'good' God tormenting people for eternity. Only religion.

What is comical is the notion you embrace that people go to hell for some arbitrary reason.

Those that reject Christ will be held accountable for their own deeds. They will be judged. They choose to go to hell.

You disbelieve because the idea of accountability goes against the training you've embraced that tells you the murderer, the liar and thief are victims and the product of their upbringing and environment.

What is most comical is the notion that man has no choice. Once that mindset is deeply ingrained reprobation ensues virtually crippling a person's ability to discern right from wrong.

@divegeester said
There you go hellers, that is what this doctrine does for unbelievers.

I think it’s fair to say that this doctrine and its adherents are doing more to keep people out of a “relationship” with Jesus than anything else.

There you go "excusers", divegeester's doctrine allows you to sin against a Holy God without accountability or consequence.

Divegeester's doctrine says you don need a relationship with Jesus. You'll be just fine because there's no judgment, according to divegeester.

According to the doctrine of divegeester you can merely interpret any portion of scripture as metaphorical if it offends you.

According to the doctrine of divegeester you can spiritualize the scriptures to mean whatever you want if it makes you feel better.

I wonder how much of divegeester's theology will change when he sees Jesus returning "when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;"

@secondson said
What is comical is the notion you embrace that people go to hell for some arbitrary reason.

Those that reject Christ will be held accountable for their own deeds. They will be judged. They choose to go to hell.

You disbelieve because the idea of accountability goes against the training you've embraced that tells you the murderer, the liar and thief are victims and the ...[text shortened]... ply ingrained reprobation ensues virtually crippling a person's ability to discern right from wrong.

Nobody goes to hell.

There is no hell.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Nobody goes to hell.

There is no hell.

You say that as if you know, you don't.

@fmf said
What if one spends one's life living in accordance with one's beliefs in a different version of the Abrahamic God? Why would such a person be tormented in burning flames - the most agonizing physical pain that can be inflicted on someone - and why would this physical agony be inflicted for eternity?

Jesus said, "I am the way". There is no other "version".

"...agonizing physical pain..."

The Bible doesn't say that. But in my opinion I think agonizing physical pain would be a relief from the spiritual torment of knowing that all is lost and that there is no hope left at all forever and ever. Agonizing loneliness and utter despair in "outer darkness" with "weeping and gnashing of teeth".

Think about that.

@secondson said
I wonder how much of divegeester's theology will change when he sees Jesus returning "when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;"

Oh! So you DO believe in eternal suffering in flames?

Gosh it’s hard to figure out what you really believe.

@kellyjay said
You didn't answer the question, but simply repeated back what I said to you.
"For example do you believe Jesus was sent by God?"

You didn't answer the question, but simply repeated back what I said to you.

Try reading and comprehending what I actually wrote KJ instead of FALSELY claiming that I "simply repeated back what [you] said to [me]".

@secondson said

"...agonizing physical pain..."

The Bible doesn't say that.

I imagine that being cast into a lake of fire and supernaturally kept alive while the smoke of one’s torment goes up everlastingly ... is probably just a bit like a warm bath then, huh?

@divegeester said
Oh! So you DO believe in eternal suffering in flames?

Gosh it’s hard to figure out what you really believe.

The man flip flops all the time, attempting to deceive and to confuse people.

@kellyjay said
You say that as if you know, you don't.

But you DO know there is a Hell because you read some words in a book about a man who had some visions...

Right...