21 Jun 21
@philokalia saidThe question is, with him having died because of his fags and booze lifestyle, what would be the moral purpose and justification for a supernatural being to torture him in fire for trillions and trillions of years - and then for eternity beyond that - after his death?
Or is someone else killing him when this happens...?
21 Jun 21
@philokalia saidYes, absolutely. I am responsible for the things that I do ~ to my wife, to my children, to my family, to my neighbours, to those in my workplace, to my students, to my clients, and, through laws, to my city and country.
Are we responsible for the things that we do, FMF?
21 Jun 21
@philokalia saidI am presenting my case. On this thread. And on other current threads. You are blanking much of what I say out, like dj2becker famously did.
Why are you here if you do not want to present arguments, FMF?
21 Jun 21
@philokalia saiddj2becker would pretend not to have read any current threads where I was talking to him. He would pretend not to have read posts in the same thread as he was posting in. He would pretend not to have read posts on the previous page. He would even pretend not to have read the post he was replying to.
Oh, Dj2becker is guilty of the cardinal sin of wanting to debate the relevant topics in the thread -- shouldn't he have known that FMF posted about it THREE YEARS AGO..?
21 Jun 21
@philokalia saidCredibility and coherence are intertwined. Why are you so afraid to state plainly the moral purpose and justification for torturing someone forever because their gut feelings meant they did not share your religious beliefs?
FMF: Let me respond to a post concerning 'gut feeling' and the mind with something completely & entirely different.
21 Jun 21
FMF: I have already explained why atheists can believe that raping babies is immoral.
dj2becker: No you haven't.
FMF: Yes, I have. Six times. You blanked it out each time.
dj2becker: Type it all out for me again, then.
FMF: No.
dj2becker: If you thought you had a good explanation, you'd be willing to type it all out for me again.
FMF: Well, I am not.
dj2becker: By not typing it all out for me again, you are trolling me.
21 Jun 21
@philokalia saidInteresting, in my version of the bible it is faith in Christ which saves us and send us to heaven.
Yes, our actions and struggles are what send us to heaven.
But if you believe it is your own efforts through your “struggles” which sends you to heaven, then that is your prerogative.
21 Jun 21
@philokalia saidCorrect. Spot on, bang on laser focused. Summed up exactly what it is. Very good.
Wait, so you look at the Bible and find its contents to be subjectively true?
As in, they may be objectively false and not real at all, but you just personally find them to be true?
The bible is subjectively true to me through the spirit of God who reveals all truth. As the scriptures state.
It the bible was objectively true then I wouldn’t need the faith given me by the spirit of God.
@philokalia saidInstead of all of this furtiveness, perhaps you would care to share what you “believe hell to be”?
That is actually not even a description of what we believe hell to be.
22 Jun 21
@divegeester saidWhy is it that what you believe about the Bible is different, so very different, from what most Christians believe?
Correct. Spot on, bang on laser focused. Summed up exactly what it is. Very good.
The bible is subjectively true to me through the spirit of God who reveals all truth. As the scriptures state.
It the bible was objectively true then I wouldn’t need the faith given me by the spirit of God.
22 Jun 21
@fmf saidNobody is being tortured: the result of alienating yourself from God and being unrepentant results in the light of God being the burning fires that is understood by others as hell, and the cold, outer hell to which they are banished is representative of the permanent alienation from God.
The question is, with him having died because of his fags and booze lifestyle, what would be the moral purpose and justification for a supernatural being to torture him in fire for trillions and trillions of years - and then for eternity beyond that - after his death?
These are not things that are actively put upon those who go to hell; these are the results of their own choices, and an unavoidable reality of choosing freely to turn their back on God.
22 Jun 21
@fmf saidKnowing how you treat my own writings, this is likely a completely uncharitable interpretation of whatever was occurring.
dj2becker would pretend not to have read any current threads where I was talking to him. He would pretend not to have read posts in the same thread as he was posting in. He would pretend not to have read posts on the previous page. He would even pretend not to have read the post he was replying to.
22 Jun 21
@philokalia saidWell, you are not a good judge of character and you have strange, foolish views on what makes a good poster.
Knowing how you treat my own writings, this is likely a completely uncharitable interpretation of whatever was occurring.
@philokalia saidYou once described it as being "burned in flames for eternity". Now you are saying "Nobody is being tortured". You're a recent convert to Christianity. Maybe you are still trying to work it all out. Perhaps talking to people who may be a bit brighter than you are, and a little less fervent about their newfound ideology, can help you sort out what it is you really believe.
Nobody is being tortured: the result of alienating yourself from God and being unrepentant results in the light of God being the burning fires that is understood by others as hell, and the cold, outer hell to which they are banished is representative of the permanent alienation from God.
22 Jun 21
@philokalia saidThis is all morally incoherent for the reasons I have already given. And coherence and credibility are intertwined.
These are not things that are actively put upon those who go to hell; these are the results of their own choices, and an unavoidable reality of choosing freely to turn their back on God.
Thankfully, all these burning flames and "cold, outer" places [if you do, indeed, believe that stuff] are in your imagination and are part of your faith and do not affect the real lives of people like me.
Let's hope that, in your real life, your moral compass hasn't been corrupted by your brand new religious beliefs and your confusion about what is and is not morally coherent.