The Gospel of Jesus vs The Gospel of Paul

Originally posted by @fmf
I certainly don't blame a supernatural being. I take responsibility for bad things that are my fault. Muslims certainly credit their god figure for the good things the experience. And my experience as a Christian makes me feel that Romans1009's post does not ring true.

You’re a Christian? Serious question.

Originally posted by @fmf
I base it on living among and talking to religious people, theists, believers from several different religions, my whole life long in Britain, Ireland, Indonesia, Japan and Australia.

You’re assuming that believers will openly attribute misfortune in their lives to God and share that opinion with you. On the occasions when I have felt I was being chastised by the Lord (or unfairly punished,) I was loathe to share that with anyone.
BTW, the Lord scourges every son he receives and tries our faith by means of adversity and affliction.

Originally posted by @fmf
Muslims thank their god figure for the good things that happen in their lives and pray to him to help them endure the bad times.

Are you referring to all Muslims here? You must be because if you were only referring to some Muslims, you surely would have said that. Have you personally met, spoken with and examined the heart of every Muslim on the planet?
See how easy it is to play your game?

Originally posted by @fmf
Well in the scenario I put to you I said nothing about "perfection". It is a notion you have introduced. In the scenario I put to you, the "judgement" would be administered to evaluate imperfection.

Wrong. Those who follow the law are a debtor to do the whole law. God’s standard is perfection. If you slip up even once, you’ve failed - if you are trusting yourself and your behavior and efforts for your righteousness

Originally posted by @fmf
So, for all intents and purposes, there is no "judgement" per se of the "sins" committed by a believer in Jesus. WOuld that be the long and short of it?

I think you’re confusing judgment and punishment.

Originally posted by @fmf
So if you truly believe your "sins" will be forgiven and you truly believe the "judgement" for those "sins" will not be visited upon you (but will be visited upon a supernatural being called Jesus), then your "sins" will indeed be forgiven and the "judgement" for those "sins" will indeed not be visited upon you.

Plus, there is the added bonus of gaining ev ...[text shortened]... ese beliefs.

And the whole thing simply happens in the mind.

That's how it comes across.

Doesn’t happen in your mind. Happens in your heart.

Originally posted by @fmf
The heart pumps blood. When people talk about things 'happening in the heart' they are talking about thoughts of an emotional nature which, of course, occur in the brain. Feelings of having "sinned", thoughts about being "forgiven", certainty about escaping personal responsibility for one's actions, and hopes about "salvation" and everlasting life, all happen in the mind. Not the kidneys, not the liver, not the heart, they happen in the mind.

I take from this post that you don’t believe in a soul or spirit either. Is that correct?

Originally posted by @thinkofone
[b]One must keep them perfectly...Only Jesus can do that.

From the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry:
[quote]Matthew 5

Jesus says:
20“For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.
.
.
Jesus then cites a half-dozen or so examples of where t ...[text shortened]... ow Jesus, one must first believe Jesus. Believe the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry[/b]

@thinkifone

How do you define “righteousness?” Do you know the Biblical definition?

Originally posted by @thinkofone
Jesus preached a different gospel than what Paul preached.

It's the topic of this thread.

How do you explain John 8:24?

Originally posted by @thinkofone
In those passages Jesus said absolutely nothing about a "redemptive work on the cross for salvation", an "atoning sacrifice" or anything like it.

If you think He did, then provide book, chapter and verses.

I’m curious about your interpretation of Isaiah chapter 53. What/who do you think it refers to?

Originally posted by @fmf
So if you truly believe your "sins" will be forgiven and you truly believe the "judgement" for those "sins" will not be visited upon you (but will be visited upon a supernatural being called Jesus), then your "sins" will indeed be forgiven and the "judgement" for those "sins" will indeed not be visited upon you.

Plus, there is the added bonus of gaining ev ...[text shortened]... ese beliefs.

And the whole thing simply happens in the mind.

That's how it comes across.

And thus, you err.

Originally posted by @fmf
Muslims thank their god figure for the good things that happen in their lives and pray to him to help them endure the bad times.

As do Christians. One might be excused for thinking that you know this. Yet you carry on as if this wasn't true.

Originally posted by @thinkofone
[b]One must keep them perfectly...Only Jesus can do that.

From the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry:
[quote]Matthew 5

Jesus says:
20“For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.
.
.
Jesus then cites a half-dozen or so examples of where t ...[text shortened]... ow Jesus, one must first believe Jesus. Believe the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry[/b]

"Clearly Jesus sees things differently than you do"

Of course He does. The same goes for you.

"Evidently the problem is that you don't believe Jesus..."

A ridiculous assertion. I believe everything Jesus says.

" - which of course is yet another requirement of the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry".

Requirement? How so? Jesus said if you love me you'll obey me. I love Jesus of my own free will. Seems absurd that if I love Him that He would then make it a requirement that I do so. It's like telling someone they have to do something they already want to do. The first commandment is that we love God with all our heart, soul, mind and strength, and rightly so, but Jesus wants our love given from our own free will on the basis of who He is, and not as automatons reacting according to a set of rules. We love Him because He first loved us. We love Him not from a sense of obligation or because of a threat of destruction, but because He loves us.

"To follow Jesus, one must first believe Jesus".

Patently obvious don't you think?

"Believe the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry"

So, obviously you don't believe that Jesus saved Paul and imparted to him by way of revelation the gospel of the grace of God. Obviously, for reasons beyond rational comprehension, you reject everything in the Bible to the right of John.

Good for you. Let me know when you arrive at the level of righteousness that surpasses the righteousness of a Pharisee.

Originally posted by @romans1009
You’re a Christian? Serious question.

So my very frequent references to myself as a non-believer, as a non-Christian, my frequent questioning of the coherence of Christian beliefs and my lack of belief in supernatural causality generally, not to mention me identifying as an atheist, has caused you to ask this "serious question" has it?

Originally posted by @secondson
"Clearly Jesus sees things differently than you do"

Of course He does. The same goes for you.

"Evidently the problem is that you don't believe Jesus..."

A ridiculous assertion. I believe everything Jesus says.

" - which of course is yet another requirement of the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry".

Requirement? How so? Jesus s ...[text shortened]... ow when you arrive at the level of righteousness that surpasses the righteousness of a Pharisee.

None of your responses account for the fact that while you wrote, "One must keep them perfectly...Only Jesus can do that", Jesus said, "Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect", as a summary of the level of righteousness required to enter the kingdom of heaven.

You missed the point entirely.