@sonship saidWe were made originally in the image of God and that was lost due to the introduction of sin into our lives. There is no sin in God, which is why we need to be born again. A new improved sinner is still a sinner. Having God in us in a restored redeemed life creates in us through Christ what only God can do, make a sinner holy. This is why only walking in the Spirit matters and no one walking in the flesh can please God. This is why we need to repent, to pick up our crosses and follow Jesus, without Him we labor in vain.
@KellyJay
[quote] The Gospel is the good news about the Kingdom of God, Jesus entering the world for us, dying on that cross, and rising from the dead so we could be forgiven. Not so we could work to enter into the Kingdom; we cannot be made righteous on our own, but through Christ, because of what He did, not what we do. We will in Him do good works, but we not be able to e ...[text shortened]... a corporate expression of the Son in a eternal city we are all growing INTO - New Jerusalem.
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We were made originally in the image of God and that was lost due to the introduction of sin into our lives. There is no sin in God, which is why we need to be born again.
What would you say now, if someone said that even though man fell into sin, man is still created in the image of God? How would you address that? Ie James speaking of fallen men included says that they are in the likeness of God still.
" With it [the tongue] we bless the Lord and Father and with it we curse men, who have been made according to the likeness of God." (James 3:9)
This is related to Genesis 1:26,27 -
And God said, Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them have dominion over . . . etc. etc. And God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them." (See Gen. 1:26,27)
My point here is that fallen man - defiled, corrupted with sin, is STILL in the image of God even as Paul wrote in 1 Cor. 11:7 .
"For a man ought not to have his head covered, since he is God's image and glory; but the woman is the glory of the man.".
You are right that the Lord Jesus did indeed say "You must be born again" -
"Do not marvel that I said to you, You must be born anew." (John 3:7 RcV)
But that man is still created in the image of God as it upholds the dignity of even fallen man as descendent from Adam. Ie. Abolitionists rightly argued imo, that the African man was not a beast but humanity, in the image of God.
What would you say about this ?
@sonship saidGod is working on us from the point of being saved on, our sanctification is an ongoing process. We are still sinners, we are still walking around in bodies of flesh we have yet put on incorruptible bodies. This is why we are told to pick up our crosses and follow Him daily, we are forever repenting in these bodies, we are forever shunning evil, looking to Him. We are to walk in the Spirit not the flesh, not to allow sin to rule over us. Without God in our lives it is hopeless, the only thing we will ever be are sinners without God. With God because He is in us will alter us into new creatures in Christ, it is painful, it isn't easy because every fleshly part of us wants what it wants when it wants it, and we are prideful creatures. This is also the reason we should not be attacking each other, everyone we meet is someone who was made in God's image, who Jesus died for, the races are just us with some fleshly distinction but all the while people who are loved by God enough to come to die for them so they could be forgiven.
@KellyJay
We were made originally in the image of God and that was lost due to the introduction of sin into our lives. There is no sin in God, which is why we need to be born again.
What would you say now, if someone said that even though man fell into sin, man is still created in the image of God? How would you address that? Ie James spea ...[text shortened]... rican man was not a beast but humanity, in the image of God.
What would you say about this ?
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@KellyJay
Amen to this. This is a good explanation reserving that man is still in the image of God.
And I would like to share a song about our old man being crucified with Him from my growing collection of Scripture songs.
Our Old Man Has Been Crucified - Rom. 6:6,7
@sonship saidNice, I listened to it. I think the process of living a crucified life is challenging much harder than just attempting to do good work alone. If we acknowledge God is sovereign, then everything, both good and bad, hits us no differently than anyone else, and knowing God is in control, He is Lord, we should never murmur when things are not going the way we want. We could be destroyed by what we call good things in this life as quickly as the bad ones since the love of this life can choke the life out of us as quickly as the bad, the example the parable of the seed and sower. When I find myself murmuring, I realize I'm doing the same thing they did in the Old Testament; God would bless they would find something about their life at the moment that they didn't like and complain.
@KellyJay
Amen to this. This is a good explanation reserving that man is still in the image of God.
And I would like to share a song about our old man being crucified with Him from my growing collection of Scripture songs.
Our Old Man Has Been Crucified - Rom. 6:6,7
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CENNoOOp9Ro
I changed jobs, so it now takes me over an hour or more one way to work. I listen to scripture a lot during the drive as I'm complaining to myself about traffic I'm in, and the length of the drive, all the while listening to the OT and wondering why they were murmuring until it dawned on me what I was doing. š
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@KellyJay
If we can give thanks and praise to God in all circumstances and all situations, I think we will be an overcomer ready to co-reign with Christ.
If we can believe that the Great Engineer of God is indeed able to cause all things to work together for good to those who love God, this trust in Him will propel us forward in growth in the life He has planted into us.
When you read the letters of Paul, in between the lines, I think you can discern the trials, difficulties, tribulations he underwent constantly. In Philippians he firmly sets his will to "rejoice" . It was the midst of his trials.
"Rejoice in the Lord always; and again I say rejoice." (Phil. 4:4).
This making the DECISION to rejoice. That is again, rejoice. We do not rejoice in our troubles. We rejoice "in the Lord" . Neither do we need to look for adverse situations or trials. God will meet them out to us according to His schedule and His curriculum for our growth.
If we can offer the "sacrifice of praise" and believe the Lord over our problems we will grow in life. So actually the praising mouth and thanking lips are very crucial. Rajk999 is wrong to always undermine the power of our speaking.
God is enthroned upon the praises of His saints. "But You are holy, YOu who sit enthroned upon the praises of Israel" (Psa, 22:3)
It is a life long Christian lesson. Our natural tendency is to murmur though So we do need to practice a life of praising and thanking God in "all things".
@rajk999 saidI asked for a quote from Jesus, and you gave me a quote from Paul; if you are attempting to prove your point about only Jesus' words when asked about it, shouldn't you be using only Jesus' words?
... the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God,
and that OBEY NOT THE GOSPEL OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST
Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction
from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
(2 Thessalonians 1:7-9 KJV)
Colossians 3
English Standard Version
If then you have been raised with Christ, seek the things that are above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. Set your minds on things that are above, not on things that are on earth. For you have died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. When Christ who is your life appears, then you also will appear with him in glory.
Put to death therefore what is earthly in you: sexual immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. On account of these the wrath of God is coming. In these you too once walked, when you were living in them. But now you must put them all away: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and obscene talk from your mouth. Do not lie to one another, seeing that you have put off the old self with its practices and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge after the image of its creator. Here there is not Greek and Jew, circumcised and uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave, free; but Christ is all, and in all.
Put on then, as God's chosen ones, holy and beloved, compassionate hearts, kindness, humility, meekness, and patience, bearing with one another and, if one has a complaint against another, forgiving each other; as the Lord has forgiven you, so you also must forgive. And above all these put on love, which binds everything together in perfect harmony. And let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, to which indeed you were called in one body. And be thankful. Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly, teaching and admonishing one another in all wisdom, singing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, with thankfulness in your hearts to God. And whatever you do, in word or deed, do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.
Wives, submit to your husbands, as is fitting in the Lord. Husbands, love your wives, and do not be harsh with them. Children, obey your parents in everything, for this pleases the Lord. Fathers, do not provoke your children, lest they become discouraged. Bondservants, obey in everything those who are your earthly masters, not by way of eye-service, as people-pleasers, but with sincerity of heart, fearing the Lord. Whatever you do, work heartily, as for the Lord and not for men, knowing that from the Lord you will receive the inheritance as your reward. You are serving the Lord Christ. For the wrongdoer will be paid back for the wrong he has done, and there is no partiality.
@kellyjay saidThe inheritance is the reward ? Is that inheritance eternal life?
knowing that from the Lord you will receive the inheritance as your reward.
I thought eternal life was a gift that cannot be earned ?
Is this yet another of the dozens of the false doctrines preached by the church ?
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@rajk999 saidHow do you explain John 3:16 and Romans 10:9?
The inheritance is the reward ? Is that inheritance eternal life?
I thought eternal life was a gift that cannot be earned ?
Is this yet another of the dozens of the false doctrines preached by the church ?
Nowhere is works mentioned as a requirement for one gaining eternal life.
@pb1022 saidSo are you saying that good works and righteousness is not required for eternal life? Just a profession of faith ie saying I believe is all?
How do you explain John 3:16 and Romans 10:9?
Nowhere is works mentioned as a requirement for one gaining eternal life.
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@rajk999 saidNot “just a profession of faith ie saying I believe is all.” That’s not what I’m saying and not what John 3:16 and Romans 10:9 say.
So are you saying that good works and righteousness is not required for eternal life? Just a profession of faith ie saying I believe is all?
You actually must believe, not just say you believe. Not so easy for some. Wasn’t for me.
But if you think good works and righteousness are required for salvation, how do you explain Jesus Christ telling the thief on the cross that the thief would be with Him in Paradise after the thief only expressed belief in Jesus Christ?
@pb1022 saidThe thief on the cross served Christ faithfully from the day he accepted Christ right until the day he died.
Not “just a profession of faith ie saying I believe is all.” That’s not what I’m saying and not what John 3:16 and Romans 10:9 say.
You actually must believe, not just say you believe. Not so easy for some. Wasn’t for me.
But if you think good works and righteousness are required for salvation, how do you explain Jesus Christ telling the thief on the cross that the thief would be with Him in Paradise after the thief only expressed belief in Jesus Christ?
Jesus knew that he would do that. It is not the same with all people so to claim that the thief on the cross is an example of not doing good works when Jesus said specifically and clearly to DO IT, then that is just a lame excuse that Jesus will see right through. You not fooling anyone except yourself with that false doctrine.
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<<The thief on the cross served Christ faithfully from the day he accepted Christ right until the day he died.>>
Huh?! The thief on the cross accepted Christ when both he and Christ were on their crosses and only hours before they both died.
The thief had no time to do good works, unless you’re suggesting he somehow fell from the cross and ran to the local market to help an old lady carry her groceries before running back to the cross and jumping back on it.
Come on! š
@rajk999 saidOur inheritance is in Christ; His grace isn't earned; walking out our faith is what we are all called to do. We are to do good works; all of our works will be judged, nowhere has that ever been denied. We are saved by the One who became sin and paid the prices for our lives.
The inheritance is the reward ? Is that inheritance eternal life?
I thought eternal life was a gift that cannot be earned ?
Is this yet another of the dozens of the false doctrines preached by the church ?
Galatians 3:12-14
English Standard Version
But the law is not of faith, rather “The one who does them shall live by them.” Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”— so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.