What is the point of eternal suffering?

@philokalia said
So, FMF, isn't it true that the principles which govern our countries (the laws) are absolutely necessary for keeping order?

If you dispute the existence of any countries and their governments and their explicit laws and systems of punishments and evidence of any prosecutions being made and evidence of punishments being carried out, you can say which countries you have in mind if you want.

@philokalia said
I believe this is the seventh time that you have referred to that someone. ^^

I note that you have deleted a post hours after it had been replied to.

@philokalia said
As stated before: Hell is uncreated. It is actually a byproduct of circumstances.

What pretentious nonsense.

@philokalia said
The cosmic order which we have also exists for a good reason: we have immortal souls, and our relationship to goodness and to God is a very important aspect of them. We can choose to seek self-improvement and prepare to meet our God who is above, or we can ignore these things and alienate ourselves from Him.

But I am not a member of the religion that you just so happen to be a member of. All these assertions about your God figure ~ and "the cosmic order" ~ are simply evidence of how your mind works and what appeals to your imagination.

@philokalia said
It only matters that they are subject to the law.

But I have no reason to believe there is a "law" like the one you believe in. Seems odd that a God/creator being wouldn't reveal his "law" to all people unequivocally, and that your "moral arguments" justifying never-ending torture for a lack of belief [i.e. a failure to have the same beliefs as you] rely on your subjective assertion that the God figure at the centre of your ideology has provided a "revelation" that is good enough to your way of thinking.

@philokalia said
God exists, and eternity exists, and by necessity of who we are, our immortal soul exists within this eternity.

I don't think the God you describe exists; I don't think "eternity" is of any concern or relevance to us human beings, with our finite lives; I don't think we have "immortal souls". I am not going to pretend that you deserve to be tortured for having different beliefs from me.

@philokalia said
Criminals send themselves to jail through breaking laws -- and, likewise, people send themselves to hell through their own actions.

Governments pass laws. They also create gaols. Police prosecute offenders. Judges send criminals to the gaols the government built.

In some despicable regimes now and down through history, police and judges prosecute people for secret or non-existent or never publicized "crimes" proscribed by secret laws without moral basis and they 'disappear' them to secret torture chambers or secret gaols or the "offenders" just vanish. Very often, the supposed "crimes" in question were thoughtcrimes.

Maybe such despicable regimes got their ideas for "keeping order" from your torturer god ideology. Your line of reasoning is similar.

As in: 'Those in power are going to torture you because they are in power; crimes are what we say are crimes; your thoughts or lack of certain thoughts have been deemed "evil"; you're going to be tortured because you are going to be tortured; it is because it is.'

@philokalia said
OK, I think we are nearing the end because there isn't really any content directly relevant to the discussion about suffering and the morality of hell.

Not relevant? You said it is "evil" not to believe in your God figure. I argue that it is not and that "evil" is something else. How is it not relevant? You mentioned "evil" and I responded.

@philokalia said
So, FMF, isn't it true that the principles which govern our countries (the laws) are absolutely necessary for keeping order?

How does the ludicrous threat of being tormented in burning flames be said to be "keeping order"?

@fmf said
I note that you have deleted a post hours after it had been replied to.

What post? I haven't deleted any posts that I can think of.

@philokalia said
What post? I haven't deleted any posts that I can think of.

You must be talking about the one where. I've said penis in it and I quoted it. I knows that it was gone as well. But I also noticed that it had been reported perhaps three times, at least that's what I think the little three in the top right corner of the post had meant after I made it.

No idea why my post was deleted but the original by dying was not.

Let me know if I'm wrong.

@fmf said
How does the ludicrous threat of being tormented in burning flames be said to be "keeping order"?

It is order for people to be punished for their shortcomings, isn't it?

It's also certainly true that we are talking about a place that is inhabited by demons as well.

@fmf said
Not relevant? You said it is "evil" not to believe in your God figure. I argue that it is not and that "evil" is something else. How is it not relevant? You mentioned "evil" and I responded.

Sure, would you like me to bring up the post that I did in regards to St. Dionysus?

@philokalia said
What post? I haven't deleted any posts that I can think of.

Play it how as see it, Philokalia. The moderators had no reason to delete it. There was nothing wrong with it, other than it made you seem like a hypocrite. You can see "The post that was quoted here has been removed" appears on page 15 and 16.

@fmf said
Governments pass laws. They also create gaols. Police prosecute offenders. Judges send criminals to the gaols the government built.

In some despicable regimes now and down through history, police and judges prosecute people for secret or non-existent or never publicized "crimes" proscribed by secret laws without moral basis and they 'disappear' them to secret torture chamber ...[text shortened]... emed "evil"; you're going to be tortured because you are going to be tortured; it is because it is.'

It's actually a matter of people getting their wishes fulfilled. Those who do not wish to be close to God will not be close to God, they will live in the condition that they have chosen for them self.

Is also certainly true that the word of God has been presented far and wide and that process is still being filled.

We can also bring up the passage from Luke chapter 12 which deals with the number of blows that a person will receive varying based upon how much somebody knows. I have no idea how that applies. It could apply very broadly in people who have all manner of excuses that were even in Christian societies might be dealed with in a manner that is far more liberal than even I would think. This is certainly not my decision to be made.

And that's kind of the beauty of it. No one has the right to make these decisions except God alone so we can just have faith in the Justice of God and worry about ourselves.

I don't want to be sucked too far into speculation about who goes where because it's definitely not something that I'm qualified to talk about. Only the Bible itself can talk about those sorts of things.