19 Jul 19
@philokalia saidBut the "consequences" you are talking about are a figment of your imagination, the result of speculation, conjecture, even aspiration, and they are a theory that you cannot prove to be true even one little tiny bit. The consequences of drunk driving and cutting food carelessly are not in dispute.
Dude, it's about how you can incur unintended consequences through your actions.
@philokalia saidWhy doesn't your God figure reveal this effectively to mankind? It seems bizarre to think it is morally justified for him to brutalize billions and billions of people with inexplicable violence for their lack of a specific religionist belief after they die. It seems narcissistic of you that you DO think such violence - that you won't suffer because of your doubleplusgoodthink - is morally justified.
Because isolating oneself from God and living an unrepentant life makes it metaphysically impossible to be united with God at the final judgment.
It seems narcissistic of you that you subscribe to such an ideology that aggrandizes the outcome of your own conjecture - that your beliefs save you from being tortured and that the failure of others to have beliefs that coincide with yours justifies them being burned for no moral purpose.
@divegeester saidSt Penis of Antioch™
Philokalia, what is the point of eternal suffering?
Have no quotes from St Penis of Antioch™ (FMF) which you can produce to help you explain what thoughts you have.
I think I said this on the phone, actually.
@philokalia saidHell is not real. There is no eternal suffering. I don't think you have any credible information about a creator being. And I am not so narcissistic as to believe it is morally justified for you to be tortured for eternity for not believing the same things as me. You've offered me assertions; these are mine in return.
Hell is real.
19 Jul 19
@philokalia saidI am not living my life with "carelessness". Nothing about the way I live my life is analogous to "cutting myself" with a knife.
Just as such, the carelessness of one's actions results in cutting yourself while cutting something else.
If my life akin to driving a car, OK, but I am not "drunk". You mean not being a member of your religion is like being drunk? You mean not being a member of your religion is like cutting myself with a knife?
God told you to tell me this stuff? And now you've told me and I'm not "ignorant" of it anymore, I am liable to be brutalized by him for it? Wow. What a bummer. So. Which tube station are you getting off at?
19 Jul 19
@fmf saidSure, the argument that you have an immortal soul would be different from the point of eternal suffering, though.
You have not said anything to convince me that I won't simply be dead when I die. You certainly have not offered any moral argument why I should be tortured for not having the same beliefs about life/torture after death as you have.
You know, even the concept that why people may merit hell can be quite different from this thread concept as well.
There was a good thread about why the failure to love God and to act on behalf of God can constitute evil -- it's actually not yet closed off yet, so you could revive it if you want to discuss the topic.
It's the old St. Dionysius & Evil thread:
https://www.redhotpawn.com/forum/spirituality/st-dionysius-and-evil.181203
19 Jul 19
@fmf saidOh, is the implication here that only some people deserve long, erudite FMF posts?
I think the what I am posting is fine. I have met people on the tube in London who have told me they are Jesus. I use short clear sentences with them.
And I am not one of them?
I am with the tube Jesus people?
LOL, OK. I accept the criticism, FMF, but it seems a bit impolite.
You may be feeling frustrated.
19 Jul 19
@fmf saidAs stated before: Hell is uncreated. It is actually a byproduct of circumstances. As one of the essayists that I quoted stated: we really do all go to the same place. It is merely that a part of it is the outer darkness, and this is the portion reserved for people who have decided to not seek communion with God and who have not repented of their sins.
But he is sent to gaol by a judge, right?
If there is no one who is going to send me to a "Hell", what do I have to worry about?
If your God figure is the "judge" and intends to send me to the place called "Hell" that he created in order to inflict neverending pain and issue a "reprimand" why is all this being kept essentially secret from me? You asserting that all these th ...[text shortened]... erstitious notions that appeal to your imagination. So the reality of it remains basically a secret.
We can also break this down again...
If a man clearly has committed a crime and must go to jail, what actually sends him to jail? The judge, or the actions that put him before the judge? Who is responsible for him being in jail -- the criminal who committed the crime, or the judge?
Let's not get our wires too crossed now.
@philokalia saidYour attempts to justify ~ and, at times, kind of distance yourself from ~ your own torturer god ideology reminds me of people who are so consumed by their superstitious notions and certainties that they don't seem to understand how they are coming across and how their assertions sound... that they end up trying to explain that they are Jesus on tube trains in London.
I am with the tube Jesus people?
@Philokalia
Why do you bother with him? He is obviously a helpless case. You are just his entertainment.
19 Jul 19
@philokalia saidThe judge puts him in gaol.
If a man clearly has committed a crime and must go to jail, what actually sends him to jail? The judge, or the actions that put him before the judge? Who is responsible for him being in jail -- the criminal who committed the crime, or the judge?
The gaol exists. It was built by the same entity that appointed the judge.
The law exists. It was passed by the same entity that appointed the judge and passed the law and built the gaol.
The crime was committed. The government apprehends the criminal, prosecutes him, and puts him in the gaol that it built.
The God figure in your ideology does not create ~ in terms of the reality in which I live, which will end the day I die ~ any law, it does not create any neverending punishment, it doesn't create any judge, it doesn't create any gaol, no matter how sincere and certain you are about your religion.
None of these things are real except in your imagination.
This law, and judge, and gaol, and punishment that you imagine exist create no moral or 'legal' imperatives for me.
A real government, a real law, a real judge, a real gaol and a real punishment that we both know exist DO create moral and legal imperatives for both of us.
The post that was quoted here has been removedThat's a bit rich coming from you. You enjoyed - and touted as the forum-posting-at-its-best - the thousands of obscene paedophilia-themed posts and sexual slurs against spouses of posters in 2018 - by someone trying to be funny - when it suited your unprincipled partisan purposes.