19 Jul 19
@philokalia saidI don't believe in "immortal souls" and I don't believe in "eternal suffering". What would be the moral purpose of tormenting me in burning flames for eternity for not believing in these things and for not sharing your personal beliefs about them?
Sure, the argument that you have an immortal soul would be different from the point of eternal suffering, though.
19 Jul 19
@philokalia saidI did have a look. I thought it was spammy and uninteresting. It seemed like a page from the songbook for singing to your choir in your collective echo chamber.
There was a good thread about why the failure to love God and to act on behalf of God can constitute evil -- it's actually not yet closed off yet, so you could revive it if you want to discuss the topic.
I am not "failing to love God" and I am not "failing to act on behalf of God".
"Evil" is a term that applies to actions and interactions between human beings.
In my life, it has nothing whatsoever to do with angels, demons and deities ~ and a mythology that ties them all together in some magical narrative ~ that just so happens to appeal to your imagination.
19 Jul 19
@philokalia saidNot at all. I think you are floundering. You might as well be Dasa warning me that I am going to be reincarnated as a cockroach if I don't start thinking his religion is "true". It's quite interesting. I am not feeling frustrated at all.
You may be feeling frustrated.
19 Jul 19
@fmf saidWow, you typed more than just a few lines there! We are really getting a real back-and-forth going.
The judge puts him in gaol.
The gaol exists. It was built by the same entity that appointed the judge.
The law exists. It was passed by the same entity that appointed the judge and passed the law and built the gaol.
The crime was committed. The government apprehends the criminal, prosecutes him, and puts him in the gaol that it built.
The God figure in your ideolo ...[text shortened]... and a real punishment that we both know exist DO create moral and legal imperatives for both of us.
So, FMF, isn't it true that the principles which govern our countries (the laws) are absolutely necessary for keeping order?
It all exists for a very good reason, correct?
The cosmic order which we have also exists for a good reason: we have immortal souls, and our relationship to goodness and to God is a very important aspect of them. We can choose to seek self-improvement and prepare to meet our God who is above, or we can ignore these things and alienate ourselves from Him.
This is what effectively amounts to damning ourselves.
God exists, and eternity exists, and by necessity of who we are, our immortal soul exists within this eternity.
Our relationship with God will affect where we go in this eternity.
Criminals send themselves to jail through breaking laws -- and, likewise, people send themselves to hell through their own actions.
This law, and judge, and gaol, and punishment that you imagine exist create no moral or 'legal' imperatives for me.
It has never mattered whether or not someone believes in the law.
It only matters that they are subject to the law.
A real government, a real law, a real judge, a real gaol and a real punishment that we both know exist DO create moral and legal imperatives for both of us.
And they are an imperfect reflection of eternity.
19 Jul 19
@fmf saidI believe this is the seventh time that you have referred to that someone. ^^
That's a bit rich coming from you. You enjoyed - and touted as the forum-posting-at-its-best - the thousands of obscene paedophilia-themed posts and sexual slurs against spouses of posters in 2018 - by someone trying to be funny - when it suited your unprincipled partisan purposes.
19 Jul 19
@fmf saidOK, I think we are nearing the end because there isn't really any content directly relevant to the discussion about suffering and the morality of hell.
I did have a look. I thought it was spammy and uninteresting. It seemed like a page from the songbook for singing to your choir in your collective echo chamber.
I am not "failing to love God" and I am not "failing to act on behalf of God".
"Evil" is a term that applies to actions and interactions between human beings.
In my life, it has nothing whatsoever to do with a ...[text shortened]... es them all together in some magical narrative ~ that just so happens to appeal to your imagination.
19 Jul 19
@philokalia saidNever mind all these lame countermeasures, just address the question in the OP.
The concept that man is created in the image rod God is a fundamental doctrine in Christianity.
The fact that you reject hell, though, makes it less surprising that you'd throw out other vital parts of our biblical heritage...
Not sure what to say, bruh.
“What is the point of eternal suffering?”
19 Jul 19
@philokalia saidI think you are grossly overestimating your performance in this thread.
You may be feeling frustrated.
19 Jul 19
@philokalia saidSo al the stuff written in Revelation about Hell and non Christians being cast into the lake of fire is metaphorical or literal?
As stated before: Hell is uncreated. It is actually a byproduct of circumstances.
Can you decide?
19 Jul 19
1 edit
@philokalia saidPhilokalia, what is the point of eternal suffering?
Wow, you typed more than just a few lines there! We are really getting a real back-and-forth going.
So, FMF, isn't it true that the principles which govern our countries (the laws) are absolutely necessary for keeping order?
It all exists for a very good reason, correct?
The cosmic order which we have also exists for a good reason: we have immortal souls, ...[text shortened]... l and legal imperatives for both of us.[/quote]
And they are an imperfect reflection of eternity.
If you don’t think there is any such thing then just say so.
If you think there is but it is metaphorical, then just say so.
20 Jul 19
@divegeester saidIf you mean 'point' as in it is a process moving towards an end, there is no point.
Never mind all these lame countermeasures, just address the question in the OP.
“What is the point of eternal suffering?”
If you mean 'point' as in the reason behind it, then it is people who have consciously rejected God (that also have immortal souls) being separated from the God that they chose to reject, and the fruits of this is what the authors of the Bible call the outer darkness.
20 Jul 19
@philokalia saidYour belief that your speculation about a creator being creates a valid or coherent moral justification for torturing me in burning flames for eternity ~ because I don't believe it too ~ is an extraordinary bit of narcissism, which only adds to how preposterous it all sounds.
If you mean 'point' as in the reason behind it, then it is people who have consciously rejected God (that also have immortal souls) being separated from the God that they chose to reject, and the fruits of this is what the authors of the Bible call the outer darkness.
Your ideology feeds you with ridiculously manmade-sounding "arguments" and moral assertions.
You actually believe your ideas are inspired by a supernatural being?