What!? Not Talk About the Trinity ?

Originally posted by divegeester
Not really. At least not until you answer my question to you.

Fine. I have answered your question. i have turned your question around and asked you in relation to checkbaiter. I have handled your question over and over again.

The matter of Christ being God or not is surely a Trinity related question. The whole matter of the definition of Trinity came about because of attacks against the doctrine of the Person of Christ derived from the New Testament.

That is why the brothers were forced to come up with such a word in the first place. I am way more sympathetic to that need than you are, I think. Had you been there in those days, I am not so sure that you would not have done something similar. That is try hard to explain the mysterious Person of Jesus Christ - God and man as one Person.

I haven't yet seen your reply to the question turned around to yourself yet. I'll look for it.

But I can have the thread apart from asking you any questions about John 16 and the Trinity. It should be just as good without questions to you.

Originally posted by Rajk999
You are not my brother in Christ. Dont flatter yourself.
You are a dangerous false teacher, a liar and a deciever that appears to be an 'angel of light' but in reality your teachings are evil.

You are not my brother in Christ. Dont flatter yourself.

Flatter myself ??

Confessing that I am a Christian is a confession that apart from being clothed in the blood of Jesus I am only good for the lake of fire. All my righteousness is as filthy rags. I need Christ to be my all.

I have nothing to flatter myself concerning. God has rejected what I am in myself.
Christ is all the riches and all the merit I have before God.

You didn't know that that is how a Christian begins ?

Originally posted by divegeester
How on earth is my question, on a spirituality discussion forum, about your spiritual beliefs, inappropriate?

Like sonship you seem to be diligent and sincere, but as a Christian you do hold a strange, or rather an unusual belief, that Jesus is not God. Most Christians believe Jesus was God incarnate.

Asking you how you have come to believe this ...[text shortened]... you have come to believe this about Jesus; what Christian sect did you learn this teaching from?

You are asking a question that involves a great deal of information....my best answer is to have you read this article which I completely agree with. It is also one of the ministries that taught me the truth about the trinity. If you don't care to read it, then stop asking. I am not into disclosing a lot of my personal history....

http://www.truthortradition.com/articles/do-you-have-to-believe-in-the-trinity-to-be-saved-2

Originally posted by sonship

A few weeks back you suggested that my skepticism about your beliefs - as I express it on this forum - might have caused hundreds of people here to face "torture for eternity" at the hands of your God figure. Yes, you actually said that.

You do have a long term memory. This sounds like something I said years ago and not weeks ago. I am w ...[text shortened]... is your supplied description.
These are the words you are attempting to insert into my mouth.

What a lot of dodging waffle . You have said that my stated disagreement and rejection of your claims and beliefs might have caused hundreds of people here to face eternal torture by turning people away from your God figure. I understand what you mean. I accept that this is your belief.

So answer the question. Don't dodge it. Might you also have caused hundreds of people here to face eternal torture by turning people away from your God figure with your behaviour and manner?

Originally posted by checkbaiter
You are asking a question that involves a great deal of information....my best answer is to have you read this article which I completely agree with. It is also one of the ministries that taught me the truth about the trinity. If you don't care to read it, then stop asking. I am not into disclosing a lot of my personal history....

http://www.truthortradition.com/articles/do-you-have-to-believe-in-the-trinity-to-be-saved-2

What I'm asking doesn't involve a great deal of information and I am not asking you for any personal information.

I am simply asking you which church sect you got your teaching about Jesus not being God? It's a bit odd that you won't say and so I suspect you are either not aligned with them anymore but still hold to this teaching or you are still aligned with them but are embarrassed by some of their other teachings.

Originally posted by sonship
Fine. I have answered your question. i have turned your question around and asked you in relation to checkbaiter. I have handled your question over and over again.

The matter of Christ being God or not is surely a Trinity related question. The whole matter of the definition of Trinity came about because of attacks against the doctrine of the Pers ...[text shortened]... tions about [b]John 16 and the Trinity. It should be just as good without questions to you.[/b]

More dodging and obfuscation - this is astonishing and quite interesting why you wont answer this simple question. Repeatedly claiming you have answered it does not make it so sonship - it just makes you come across like the JWs.

I'm not contesting the trinity teaching itself, as you well know. All this obfuscation - posts and posts and posts of text about the trinity, it's silly and is just you burying the subject.

You know very well what I'm driving at don't you; I've asked you the same question probably 15 times now and you won't answer it and I've even told you why you won't answer it. Here it is again:

Does outright and total rejection of the trinity doctrine (your version/description of it is fine for this example) preclude a person from being filled with the spirit and therefore (according to your own definition), from salvation?

Yes or no.

Originally posted by sonship
Divegeester, Have I been a bad influence on you ? LOL!

Is checkbaiter still saved if he has a different dogma than you on whether Jesus is God incarnate or not ?

Do you see what I mean now ? It is inconceivable to me that a man says he's a disciple of Jesus yet does not believe Jesus is God incarnate. Here's checkbaiter though.

Christians, [Jesu ...[text shortened]... man's personal experience.
But you can deal with what is being said.

Am I right ?

I have no idea what you are talking about.

Originally posted by divegeester
What I'm asking doesn't involve a great deal of information and I am not asking you for any personal information.

I am simply asking you which church sect you got your teaching about Jesus not being God? It's a bit odd that you won't say and so I suspect you are either not aligned with them anymore but still hold to this teaching or you are still aligned with them but are embarrassed by some of their other teachings.

Checkbaiter, has some backround with a group called The Way International, of which some members I knew personally.

He did not remain with that group. And I am glad that he found his way away from them.

I heard a teaching from them emphatically stating that you lose Christianity when you say that Jesus is God.

The few people that I knew in the Way International had a strong emphasis on the gift of speaking in tongues. But it seemed to not be something everyone had kind of "graduated" to. Those who had the supposed gift of speaking in tongues seemed to be held in somewhat more special regard.

I have tried to be fair in my honest recollection of my encounters with The Way International. Once again, check told me he is no longer with them.

Perhaps his beginnings were with them and he has retained some of their teachings.

Originally posted by divegeester
I have no idea what you are talking about.

I thought that might be the case.

Originally posted by sonship

A few weeks back you suggested that my skepticism about your beliefs - as I express it on this forum - might have caused hundreds of people here to face "torture for eternity" at the hands of your God figure. Yes, you actually said that.

You do have a long term memory. This sounds like something I said years ago and not weeks ago. I am w ...[text shortened]... is your supplied description.
These are the words you are attempting to insert into my mouth.

FMF: A few weeks back you suggested that my skepticism about your beliefs - as I express it on this forum - might have caused hundreds of people here to face "torture for eternity" at the hands of your God figure. Yes, you actually said that.

sonship: You do have a long term memory. This sounds like something I said years ago and not weeks ago. I am willing to be corrected if you have the quotation.

Whether weeks or years ago - In the thousands of words we each have exchanged here I do recall something said to someone about the effecting of others beliefs or disbelief.

You said that people's blood may be on my hands because of the time I have spent expressing different beliefs from you on this debate and discussion forum. You said that the words I have written on this forum may have affected the lives of hundreds of people and that you were concerned that I have influenced others not to be saved. Not being saved means torture, right?

Originally posted by sonship
Checkbaiter, has some backround with a group called The Way International, of which some members I knew personally.

He did not remain with that group. And I am glad that he found his way away from them.

I heard a teaching from them emphatically stating that you lose Christianity when you say that Jesus is God.

The few people that I knew in the W ...[text shortened]... th them.

Perhaps his beginnings were with them and he has retained some of their teachings.

Do you think he wanted you to share this information?

Why are you giving me this information instead of answering the question in my post?

Originally posted by sonship
I thought that might be the case.

No, I really don't know what you are getting at. Ask me a direct question and I'll answer it.

Originally posted by divegeester
That's a bit heavy coming from a "works" doer 😲

You dont know what I do.
I have told you what I believe.

Originally posted by sonship
I just asked you to expound [b]Matt. 5:22.

Are you saying that it is OK for a disciples of Jesus to call others insulting names out of anger, just as long as they are not Christian bothers ?

Of course I think "brother" in that context may have mean Jewish brethren.

Expound that passage for us please, even if I am not your Christian brother.[/b]

You are not a disciple of Jesus. You rejected the critiera that Jesus used to determine discipleship.

Originally posted by Rajk999
You dont know what I do.
I have told you what I believe.

You think your posts here, your aggressive attitude, name calling and telling other Christians they are not in Christ...is you doing "good works"? You seem to me to just be the other end of the same spectrum sonship is on.