What!? Not Talk About the Trinity ?

Originally posted by checkbaiter
I have to disagree. there are two kinds of people alright, but they are those who have the Son and those who do not.

He doesn't understand, he is quite literally hell bent on being able to earn his righteousness
before God and man that he will ignore and reject anything no matter to the point and clear
it is that shows his error.

Originally posted by Rajk999

The Spirit of God/Christ indwells in all those, regardless of religion, who live righteously and do the good works which please God.

That's not in the New Testament.

" But as many as received Him, to them He gave the authority to become children of God, to those who believe into His name,

The word of God says the authority to become children of God is given to those [b]"who believe into His name." You're teaching that this authority is given whether they believe into His name or disbelieve in Him.

Who were begotten not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God." [/b]

The word of God says the authority to become children of God is given to those who "RECEIVED Him". You are teaching it is given to those who received and to those who do not receive Him.

You're teaching that behaving well by standards you approve of makes one one of the children of God no matter what they believe about the Son of God. If this had been true the third chapter of [John[/b] would not have Jesus emphasis to Nicodemus a very good man, that he MUST be born from above, born anew.

The Bible says the birth from God is not of three sources -

1.) The blood -
2.) The will of the flesh (the fallen man)
3.) The will of the original man.

The BIRTH is of God.

The word of God says it was not given to those in lieu of the fact that they were born of the flesh, if they have good behavior. You teach that anyone merely born naturally who acts good is given this authority.

The word says it is not granted to the will of the fallen man - "the flesh".
You teach that the will of the flesh, the fallen man, can make himself one of the children of God.

The word says the authority to become one of the children of God is not even granted to the original man who

So you can continue to talk, and blah, blah, blah

Spirituality aside, you really need some regular human maturity.
You need to grow up a little. And this apart from your treatment of God's word.

Your "blah, blah, blah" sounds like some punk in junior highschool showing contempt on the school playground.

Grow up.

about how much you love Jesus, you believe and you know Christ, and Jesus is Lord, and keep saying it for 10 minutes, 20 times a day. If thats all you do then you have nothing.

Then you despise the Apostle's words that we should hold FAST the Head, Christ.

" ... holding the Head, out from whom all the Body, ... " (Colossians 2:19a)

Christians should continually and steadfastly HOLD on to Christ the HEAD of His mystical Body. So why do you persecute believers who ever emphasize that they have Christ, exalt Christ, live unto Christ, live Christ, enjoy Christ, abide in Christ, turn to Christ, and let Christ live through them.

This is the way we hold fast to the Head - Christ. And this is the way we GROW up in Him in ALL things,

" But holding to truth in love, we may grow up into Him in all things, who is the Head, Christ."

I have made some mistakes on this Forum over the years. One thing I always try to repent of and come back to - CHRIST. And for this you wish to belittle a lover of Christ.

Shame on you.

In the meantime those who are truly with Christ and who truly have the Spirit of God/Christ, these continue to live righteously and do good works. There is nothing to talk about from these people. God is in them already and God guides their footsteps already. They are chosen by God already.

So some of the good Pharisees and good scribes and good priest who rejected the Son of God and called for His crucifixion were chosen by God ? Some of them were good people by contemporary religious standards.

Paul didn't want to be found in ANY kind of righteousness except that which is through the faith of Christ -

" And be found in Him, not having my own righteousness which is out of the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is out of God and based on faith." ( Phil. 3:9)

Those are the two kinds of people in the world .. talkers and doers.

The purpose of Jesus Christ is to build His church. And the only building material that can accomplish the building of His church is Christ Himself.

You may be only for individual good behavior. While that is ok, you neglect sorely the purpose of Christ to build up His church.

God hates talkers, and it is the doers that follow Christ commandments and have the Spirit of Christ:

"Make mention that His name is exalted."

says Isaiah 12:4. That requires His saints TALK.

In fact a gentle tongue is the tree of life. In New Testament terms a gentle tongue surely is one that has been dealt with by the cross in the Holy Spirit.

" A soothing tongue is a tree of life, ..." (Prov. 15:4)

That is no small thing to say that a man's speaking can be a tree of life.

If God hates talkers than Paul was wrong to exhort the churching people to speak to one another in Psalms and hymns and spiritual songs.

" SPEAKING to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and psalming with your heart to the Lord." ( Eph. 5:19)

Speaking from the Holy Spirit is also required in 'giving thanks"

" Giving thanks at all times for all things in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ to our God and Father." (v.20)

Speaking should be "building up". God does not tell the Christians to not speak. He tells them what and how to speak in the Holy Spirit and from a holy living.

" Let no corrupt word proceed out of your mouth, but only that which is good for building up, according to the need, that it may give grace to those who hear." (Eph. 4:19)

Does your "blah, blah, blah" impart grace to anyone or build up the believers ?
I think it is more along the line of corrupt words proceeding out of your mouth perhaps.

We are to live Christ and to SPEAK the Christ that we live. This is called to prophesy. And the master builder Paul wants ALL to earnestly desire to prophesy while you want all the saints to stop talking.

" Pursue love, and desire earnestly spiritual gifts,, BUT ESPECIALLY that you may prophesy." (1 Cor. 14:1)

While you are interested only in individualistic and isolated spirituality of independent loner types, the Apostle says prophesying (which involves speaking) builds up the church, God's purpose -

"He who speaks in a tongue builds up himself, but he who prophesies builds up the church." (v.4)

While the Devil influences you to charge Christians to stop talking, Paul says he desires the saints to prophesy one by one.

"For you can all prophesy one by one that all may learn and all may be encouraged." (1 Cor. 14:31)

God hates talkers ?
God loves those who live Christ, come to the church meeting and prophesy that others may learn and be encouraged.

In the church meeting the saints living Christ should prophesy that visitors may be convicted and turn in repentence to God.

"But if all prophesy and some unbeliever or unlearned person enters, he is convicted by all, he is examined by all;

The secrets of his heart become manifest, and so falling on his face, he will worshp God, declaring that indeed God is among you." ( 1 Cor. 14:25)

But you teach that God hates talkers. No God does not like vain talking or hypocritical talking - drawing near to God with the mouth while the heart is far away.

God loves those who live Christ and SPEAK OUT the Christ they seek to live and manifest.

Originally posted by KellyJay
He doesn't understand, he is quite literally hell bent on being able to earn his righteousness
before God and man that he will ignore and reject anything no matter to the point and clear
it is that shows his error.

Still waiting on your reference where Jesus spoke of 'earning righteousness' before God.

There is no such thing in the Bible, so you are selling worthless church dogma which is alien to Christ.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Still waiting on your reference where Jesus spoke of 'earning righteousness' before God.

There is no such thing in the Bible, so you are selling worthless church dogma which is alien to Christ.

Explain the phrase "the GIFT of righteousness"

" ... the abundance of grace and of the GIFT OF RIGHTEOUSNESS will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ." (See Romans 5:16)

Why does the New Testament speak of "the gift of righteousness" ?

Originally posted by sonship
Explain the phrase [b]"the GIFT of righteousness"

" ... the abundance of grace and of the GIFT OF RIGHTEOUSNESS will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ." (See Romans 5:16)

Why does the New Testament speak of "the gift of righteousness" ?[/b]

What does that have to do with my question? Can you answer the question asked pertaining to Kjs statement?

Gift of righteousness is another expression twisted by your type.

Originally posted by Rajk999
What does that have to do with my question? Can you answer the question asked pertaining to Kjs statement?

Gift of righteousness is another expression twisted by your type.

Its relevant because the gift of righteousness comes through the abundance of grace.

I have written here that Power Steering on a modern automobile is an analogy of GRACE. It is an enjoyment of another Person in the midst of your being blending with you and enabling you. Grace is like the power steering in which you apply minimal effort and a power in the engine coordinates with your movement and does a strong job of governing the direction of the car.

Paul labored more than all the apostles. He gives the credit not to his own zeal but the grace of God which operated in his being. He mastered the secret of the divine power steering of grace .

" But by the grace of God I am what I am; and His grace unto me did not turn out to be in vain, but on the contrary, I labored more abundantly than all of them,

yet not I but the grace of God which is with me." (1 Cor. 15:10)

No doubt you'll read this and think
"Blah, blah, blah, blah." Go ahead and belittle this . Some of us are going to grasp the truth in spite of your scoffing.

The ABUNDANCE of GRACE causes the Christians to REIGN in life. Righteousness is GIFTED to them by the enabling power of the ABUNDANCE of Grace. Just as Paul said he was what he was because of the GRACE of God, a grace with operated in him.

" ... much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One Jesus Christ." (Rom. 5:17)

No one will REIGN IN LIFE apart from the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness through the living and available Jesus Christ.

As power steering GIFTS the car driver with an enhanced control of the automibile so the abundance of grace GIFTS the enjoyer of that grace with righteousness with which he can overcome in life - "reign in life".

If we compare the operating grace in Paul in First Corinthians 15:10 with the indwelling Jesus Christ in Paul in Galatians 2:20 we see that the two expressions are of the same phenomenon -

Christ in Paul is the Grace operating in Paul.
The Grace operating in Paul is Christ living in Paul.

" I am crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I that live, but it is Christ who lives in me ..." (Gal. 2:20a)

"Not I but Christ" is also "Not I but the grace of God".

"Not I but the grace of God" is also "Not I but Christ"

And with the abundance of Grace the Christian can enjoy "the gift of righteousness" as the Apostle encouraged the believers to partake of.

Originally posted by sonship
Its relevant because the gift of righteousness comes through the abundance of grace.

I have written here that Power Steering on a modern automobile is an analogy of [b]GRACE. It is an enjoyment of another Person in the midst of your being blending with you and enabling you. Grace is like the power steering in which you apply minimal effort and a pow ...[text shortened]... enjoy "the gift of righteousness" as the Apostle encouraged the believers to partake of.[/b]

That has ho relevance to what KJ said.

When faced with the commandments of Jesus, KJ claims that following Christ is earning righteouness before God. So my response

Still waiting on your reference where Jesus spoke of 'earning righteousness' before God. There is no such thing in the Bible, so you are selling worthless church dogma which is alien to Christ.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Still waiting on your reference where Jesus spoke of 'earning righteousness' before God.

There is no such thing in the Bible, so you are selling worthless church dogma which is alien to Christ.

We are not saved by our works, how many times have people shared that with you?


One example of this in scripture.

Romans 4:3-5New International Version (NIV)
3 What does Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”

4 Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.

Originally posted by KellyJay
We are not saved by our works, how many times have people shared that with you?


One example of this in scripture.

Romans 4:3-5New International Version (NIV)
3 What does Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”

4 Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5 However, ...[text shortened]... oes not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.

So Jesus said no such thing. Therefore your understanding of Paul is incorrect.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Still waiting on your reference where Jesus spoke of 'earning righteousness' before God.

There is no such thing in the Bible, so you are selling worthless church dogma which is alien to Christ.

Where you are in error and it is a GREAT error at that, is you think this is an either or type
of thing with God. We are saved by grace, through faith and that is a gift of God, we are
not saved by works least any of us can boast. Yet at the same time we will be doing
works, to obey is better than sacrifice, but our works are not to earn our salvation that
was done by Jesus Christ.

The only thing worthless going on in this conversation is your claims that people can earn
their righteousness by doing works without believing in Jesus Christ. That works comes
before turning one's life over to God as if we can produce good enough works without God
to be justified by God.

Originally posted by Rajk999
So Jesus said no such thing. Therefore your understanding of Paul is incorrect.

The truths of God in scripture all from God, what Paul, Peter, John, or any of the others
who were speaking for God are not less than that of the Lord. For that matter even Jesus
said what He said wasn't His own but came from the One who sent Him. If you are
making a scriptural truth to be less than because it was not uttered by Jesus Himself than
you are in error.

Just because some spiritual truth didn't get uttered by Jesus does not mean that it is not
a truth of God. If you reject something because it did not come from Jesus you are against
the God who sent them all to us to write down God's truth.

John 7:
16 Jesus answered, “My teaching is not my own. It comes from the one who sent me. 17 Anyone who chooses to do the will of God will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own.

Originally posted by KellyJay
Where you are in error and it is a GREAT error at that, is you think this is an either or type
of thing with God. We are saved by grace, through faith and that is a gift of God, we are
not saved by works least any of us can boast. Yet at the same time we will be doing
works, to obey is better than sacrifice, but our works are not to earn our salvation th ...[text shortened]... e's life over to God as if we can produce good enough works without God
to be justified by God.

So according to you the thousands to which Jesus preached are all hopelessly lost. What about the millions who followed Jesus's teachings who did not hear of the Apostles? All lost according to you. Yep .. no point talking further to you. What about the millions who live righteously now? You think there are no such people, right?