What!? Not Talk About the Trinity ?

Originally posted by gswilm

Does the fact God use "We" in Genesis mean there has to be a Trinity?

[b]"We" is not used in Genesis. You should make sure you read verses in the Bible before commenting on them.

I believe there could be other reasons.

I sonship referred to "Us"{/b] which is used by God three times in [b]Genesis.

Ch ...[text shortened]... eness-unity-plural-of-majesty-pluralis-majestaticus-royal-we.htm

sonship here on gswilm's PC.[/b]

Hear oh Israel, the Lord your God is ONE.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
'What exactly are you saying?'

🙂 I am challenging your assertion than unbelievers can not please God. Cyrus was an unbeliever and yet managed to do so.

You must therefore either reconsider your assertion or dispute the fact that Cyrus pleased God while being an unbeliever.

Scripturally speaking, without faith it is impossible to please God, and if you are govern
by the flesh you will hostile to God.

Hebrews 11:6
And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.

Romans 8:7-9New International Version (NIV)
7 The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. 8 Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God.

9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ.

Originally posted by KellyJay
Scripturally speaking, without faith it is impossible to please God, and if you are govern
by the flesh you will hostile to God.

Hebrews 11:6
And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.

Romans 8:7-9New International Version (NIV)
7 T ...[text shortened]... od lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ.

You are faith driven .. we get that.
However, without works, faith is dead... ie NOTHING
Love and charity is greater than faith.

Faith is really a stepping stone to something of value as faith alone is worthless. Many dont get that point that faith needs to be demonstrated and proven for it to be of value. So instead they simply boast of their faith and they remain at ground zero going nowhere.

Your personal bias should not block your understanding of what the the whole teaching of the Bible is .
- that God accepts those of faith provided they also have good works
- that God accepts those with works even though YOU assume that they dont have faith.

James says that those with works have faith as well.

Originally posted by Rajk999
You are faith driven .. we get that.
However, without works, faith is dead... ie NOTHING
Love and charity is greater than faith.

Faith is really a stepping stone to something of value as faith alone is worthless. Many dont get that point that faith needs to be demonstrated and proven for it to be of value. So instead they simply boast of their faith and ...[text shortened]... gh YOU assume that they dont have faith.

James says that those with works have faith as well.

The Hebrews verse KellyJay cited said that a person must believe that God exists.

Originally posted by Rajk999
You are faith driven .. we get that.
However, without works, faith is dead... ie NOTHING
Love and charity is greater than faith.

Faith is really a stepping stone to something of value as faith alone is worthless. Many dont get that point that faith needs to be demonstrated and proven for it to be of value. So instead they simply boast of their faith and ...[text shortened]... gh YOU assume that they dont have faith.

James says that those with works have faith as well.

Yes, I believe we are saved by grace through faith which is a gift of God and when that
happens we will be doing works. Nothing I've said implies works will not be done, the only
thing I'm implying is what the scripture teaches. You seem to skip over the parts of the
Bible that don't agree with your views.

What was it that I have said that prompted you to compare faith to love and charity?
Picking a fight about something we were not talking about?

Nothing I have said suggest faith means we will not be working either, that is between
your ears it most certainly has nothing to do with what I've been saying.

Originally posted by gswilm

Does the fact God use "We" in Genesis mean there has to be a Trinity?

[b]"We" is not used in Genesis. You should make sure you read verses in the Bible before commenting on them.

I believe there could be other reasons.

I sonship referred to "Us"{/b] which is used by God three times in [b]Genesis.

Ch ...[text shortened]... eness-unity-plural-of-majesty-pluralis-majestaticus-royal-we.htm

sonship here on gswilm's PC.[/b]

We/Us is still plural, don't make a mountain of a mole hill. It does not change the point being made.
Could you possibly name three ? Just curious. Its not mandatory.


Buzzard, p. 13

Farley, pp. 25-27

Hyndman, pp. 53 and 54

Morgridge, pp. 92-96

Snedeker, pp. 359-367

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Kelly said 'those who do not believe cannot please God, as pointed out by the book of John.'

Prophecy or not, Cyrus (who did 'not' acknowledge God) was not only to be God's anointed shepherd, he would also accomplish things that would please God. - Does this not contradict Kelly's above assertion?

Cyrus did not believe, and yet was able to plea ...[text shortened]... modern atheist can please God by accomplishing things he approves of, despite his lack of faith?

The bible does not say Cyrus pleased God does it? I don't know which verse Kelly is referring to in John.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
The bible does not say Cyrus pleased God does it? I don't know which verse Kelly is referring to in John.

“He is my shepherd and will accomplish all that I please.”

You don't think God would have been pleased with his anointed shepherd accomplishing all that he wanted?

Originally posted by KellyJay
Scripturally speaking, without faith it is impossible to please God, and if you are govern
by the flesh you will hostile to God.

Hebrews 11:6
And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.

Romans 8:7-9New International Version (NIV)
7 T ...[text shortened]... od lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ.

But the Cyrus example is scriptural. Here we have a man without faith who was able to please God by acting as his shepherd and enabling him to accomplish what he wanted.

Originally posted by FMF
What is it it you think is being stolen from you?

Man, you really can't be bothered to read other people's posts, can you?

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
But the Cyrus example is scriptural. Here we have a man without faith who was able to please God by acting as his shepherd and enabling him to accomplish what he wanted.

where is it stated that Cyrus was without faith?

Originally posted by Suzianne
Man, you really can't be bothered to read other people's posts, can you?

Well I did read sonship's post. That's the whole point. I read it. Did you? He compared me to a pick pocket stealing things from other posters. Hence my question to sonship: 'What is it it you think is being stolen from you'?

Originally posted by KellyJay
Yes, I believe we are saved by grace through faith which is a gift of God and when that
happens we will be doing works. Nothing I've said implies works will not be done, the only
thing I'm implying is what the scripture teaches. You seem to skip over the parts of the
Bible that don't agree with your views.

What was it that I have said that prompted yo ...[text shortened]... ther, that is between
your ears it most certainly has nothing to do with what I've been saying.

Nobody automatically does good works after becoming a Christian. Thats nonsense and it is not in the Bible. You keep saying this and keep quoting irrelevant passages to prove it and it makes no sense. Even those with the Spirit of God / Christ do not necessarily do good works and can choose to continue with sin and evil as clearly stated here, and these Christians will be destroyed:

Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are. (1 Corinthians 3:16-17 KJV)

God has prepared good works for Christians to do which are the good works which Jesus spoke of, but God does not force Christians to do it. It must come from their heart and from within themselves. Christ will judge in the end.

In any event, if you are not influenced by the teachings of Christ, and if you can read Matt 5, 6 and 7 and not be moved, and instead you gravitate to statements which seem to give you a free ride [ doing nothing but lip service] into the Kingdom of God, then you are a freeloader.

Originally posted by chaney3
The Hebrews verse KellyJay cited said that a person must believe that God exists.

A professed Christian [who practices lip service to God] can profess that he believes in God all he wants, but if he continues with sin and evil, and does not do good works, he will end up in eternal death,

A professed Atheist [who practices lip service to NO God] can profess that he believes in No God all he wants, but if he resists sin and evil and does good works, he will end up in eternal life,

The mouth worshiping evil Christian thinks he is fooling God.
The good Atheist who lives righteously, thinks he is fooling God

The point as always is that people think they can fool God with their mouth. Thats a fatal error. God sees the intent of the heart. An evil Christian will die and a good Atheist will live. God is laughing at both because He knows the final outcome.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
where is it stated that Cyrus was without faith?

Cyrus had faith, but not in Yahweh. (Who he did not acknowledge).

‘I summon you by name and bestow on you a title of honor, though you do not acknowledge me’” (Isaiah 45:1, 4).

Cyrus was a pagan dude and still pleased God. Deal with it.