26 Dec 16
Originally posted by robbie carrobieIn the beginning was the Word. Everything was created through the Word.
Then evidently Jesus was an angel.
1 Corinthians 15:33 describes him as 'the firstborn of all creation'. John 1:1 describes him as 'The Word', or messenger of God.
If Jesus was there at the beginning and nothing was created without him, how could Jesus be created? He would have to be created without him.
26 Dec 16
3 edits
Originally posted by EladarNo one is disputing that Jesus was The word and no one is disputing that everything was created through Jesus. Difficult for the Word to be with God and be God at the same time though, isn't it. Do you know anyone that can be with someone and be them at the same time, no neither can I and simple logic refutes such absurd reasoning. To what beginning is the scripture a reference to, you have not said and seem to assume it must be a reference to the beginning of time. The mere fact that Jesus existed at the beginning would mean that he existed at a point in time, this refutes outright that idea that he is God for God has always existed having no beginning or end. Ouch for you.
In the beginning was the Word. Everything was created through the Word.
If Jesus was there at the beginning and nothing was created without him, how could Jesus be created? He would have to be created without him.
I also notice that you ave ignored Colossians 1:15 which states that Jesus was the firstborn of all creation, why is that? A rather inconvenient truth for you I'll bet. I also notice that you have not addressed a single scripture that I cite and until you do so i see no point in attempting to reason with people who are unreasonable. Here they are again.
Keep this mental attitude in you that was also in Christ Jesus, who, although he was existing in God’s form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God. - Philippians 2:5.6
You heard that I said to you, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would rejoice that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I am - John 14:28
Jesus said to her: “Stop clinging to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.’” John 20:17
But I want you to know that the head of every man is the Christ; in turn, the head of a woman is the man; in turn, the head of the Christ is God. - 1 Corinthians 11:3
But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone.- 1 Corinthians 15:2
26 Dec 16
Originally posted by robbie carrobieAngels are by definition created beings.
No one is disputing that Jesus was The word and no one is disputing that everything was created through Jesus. Difficult for the Word to be with God and be God at the same time though, isn't it Do you know anyone that can be with someone and be them at the same time, no neither can I and simple logic refutes such absurd reasoning.
I also notic ...[text shortened]... One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone.- 1 Corinthians 15:2
Did you read Hebrews 1:5?
26 Dec 16
4 edits
Originally posted by divegeesterNo that is not our position and its clear that you do not understand what it is and even if it is, so what? Colossians 1:15, lets hear you tell the forum what is says. I want to hear you say it.
You've admitted to me in this forum that you have two saviours.
26 Dec 16
2 edits
Originally posted by EladarBut you have just stated that an angel was a messenger of God and a created being. Are you denying what John 1:1 and Colssians 1:15 says?
It says that no angel has recieved what Jesus has recieved.
It does not say any other angel. Obviously Jesus is not an angel.
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. Are you denying that Jesus was a created being? How are you going to explain the verse then?
That no angel has received what Jesus has received does not mean that Jesus is not an angel. If there is a group of soldiers and one and only one receives the congressional medal of honour and the others do not does that mean that the soldier is no longer a soldier? what absurd reasoning.
26 Dec 16
Originally posted by robbie carrobieAll humans are created in the image of God.
He (Jesus) is the image of the invisible God, [b]the firstborn of all creation - Col 1:15
Lets see you dance around this. Get dancing![/b]
When he took on human form, he took on the form of the created. He is preeminent above all others as created beings.
Jesus is both the Son of God and the Son of Man.
God exists outside of a 3 dimensional Universe so is it assumed that God, Son and Holy Ghost function under the rules of our universe?
26 Dec 16
3 edits
Originally posted by EladarThe verse does not say preeminent above all creation you simply made it up, what it actually says says is that Jesus is of the creation. The firstborn OF creation. Now you are simply making stuff up that is not explicitly stated in scripture. why is that? Can you cite any other firstborn that was not actually born or created or had a beginning?
All humans are created in the image of God.
When he took on human form, he took on the form of the created. He is preeminent above all others as created beings.
Jesus is both the Son of God and the Son of Man.
God exists outside of a 3 dimensional Universe so is it assumed that God, Son and Holy Ghost function under the rules of our universe?
26 Dec 16
Originally posted by robbie carrobieJesus became a created being when he took human form.
The verse does not say preeminent above all creation you simply made it up, what it actually says says is that Jesus is of the creation. The firstborn OF creation. Now you are simply making stuff up that is not explicitly stated in scripture. why is that? Can you cite any other firstborn that was not actually born or created or had a beginning?
He could not be the first created being due to John 1.
26 Dec 16
2 edits
Originally posted by EladarThe verse does not say that he became a created being when he took a human form, what it actually says is that he was the Firstborn of ALL creation. Again you are simply making things up which are not explicitly stated in scripture. Why are you doing that?
Jesus became a created being when he took human form.
He could not be the first created being due to John 1.