@pb1022 saidYou really are very slow. So here it is again. Jesus and all the Apostles preached the Gospel Message of Christ. This is the Gospel of the Kingdom of God. They all preached exactly the same thing, which is:
So now you’re saying Paul didn’t preach the same Gospel of Jesus Christ?! Just a few posts ago you said he did.
1. Faith and Baptism
2. Repentance from sin
3. Living Righteously and doing Good Works
That in a nutshell is the Gospel Message preached by all of them, and that is what is necessary for eternal life in the Kingdom of God.
Jesus Christ, Peter, James, John, Paul .... all preached the very same thing
Many Christian churches have removed #3, quoting instead the writings of Paul with the claim that they are saved by Grace and therefore have eternal life and no good works or righteous living in necessary. The church gospel has been watered down to a faith only gospel, and it has become complete nonsense.
If you read the writings of Jesus, Peter, John and James you would see that the Gospel was a message that has to be OBEYED. There are things to DO. Failure to DO and OBEY means damnation. this was clearly stated over and over by all the Apostles
Your church gospel took statements made by Paul which has no bearing on the Gospel of Christ and claimed that is the gospel. Paul spoke of many things. Paul spoke of how churches should be run and the relationship between husbands and wives. These things, although true and in the bible, have nothing to do with the Gospel Message of Christ, and what is necessary for YOU TO DO to get eternal life. The church teaching that you have to DO NOTHING except have faith is nonsense.
The basic flaw of the church gospel is that they have taken all the things Jesus Christ did on the cross for them, to die for their sins, and save them from sin, and made the claim that if they believe that then they have eternal life. That doctrine is NOT PREACHED BY JESUS CHRIST and it is a false gospel. If you are smart, then that omission by Christ, should be of concern to you. If you cannot even understand this basic flaw in the gospel preached by your church then it makes no sense to proceed further. I can explain exactly where churches are in error regarding this "saved by Grace through faith, and not of works" doctrine you keep quoting.... but I dont think your mind is capable of understanding what Paul means by that.
You are free to call me troll or whatever. You continue on your merry way believing what you like. You say you do good works and you live righteously, then keeping on going on that route, because in the end that is what will get you eternal life in the Kingdom of God. Many who profess faith will be condemned, because they have like fools followed after the churches false doctrines, and did nothing ... they ignored Jesus Christ.
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30 Nov 21
@rajk999 saidJust a waste of time conversing with you ‘cause you don’t answer questions.
Typical reaction of church Christians when the truth hits them.
You still haven’t answered whether you think Jesus Christ was the Messiah, whether there was any purpose to His crucifixion, how the New Covenant is different from the Old Covenant, why God instituted a sacrificial system in the Old Testament to atone for sins if good works atone for sins, whether you think one has to keep all of the commandments perfectly 100% of the time to enter Heaven, what Jesus meant when He said in Matthew 26:28 that His blood was shed for the remission of sins, what the good news of the Gospel is in your doctrine and on and on.
You don’t answer questions that expose your doctrine as false. You just ignore them and keep repeating the same thing over and over.
You’ve confused how Christians should (and are expected) to behave with obtaining salvation.
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30 Nov 21
@pb1022 saidYou also didn’t explain how the thief on the cross obtained salvation when all he did was profess belief in Christ.
Just a waste of time conversing with you ‘cause you don’t answer questions.
You still haven’t answered whether you think Jesus Christ was the Messiah, whether there was any purpose to His crucifixion, how the New Covenant is different from the Old Covenant, why God instituted a sacrificial system in the Old Testament to atone for sins if good works atone for sins, whether y ...[text shortened]... ver.
You’ve confused how Christians should (and are expected) to behave with obtaining salvation.
Obviously, being a thief, he hadn’t kept the commandments. Probably didn’t do a lot of good works either 😉
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30 Nov 21
@rajk999 saidYou also think Christians who believe in salvation by grace through faith just sit around after they get saved and do nothing.
You really are very slow. So here it is again. Jesus and all the Apostles preached the Gospel Message of Christ. This is the Gospel of the Kingdom of God. They all preached exactly the same thing, which is:
1. Faith and Baptism
2. Repentance from sin
3. Living Righteously and doing Good Works
That in a nutshell is the Gospel Message preached by all of them, and th ...[text shortened]... ke fools followed after the churches false doctrines, and did nothing ... they ignored Jesus Christ.
Nothing could be further from the truth.
The difference between them and those who follow your doctrine is salvation by grace through faith Christians do good works and live righteously (or do their best to) out love for God and in gratitude for all Jesus did for them on the cross. They do good works and live righteously (or try their best to) not to earn God’s approval or salvation but because they already have them.
That has to be your biggest stumbling block - this false belief that salvation by grace through faith Christians sit around and do nothing after they’re saved.
And by the way, I don’t know where you live, but I think most churches in America preach *your* doctrine of salvation by works.
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30 Nov 21
@Rajk999
You really should re-read Galatians.
Here are some verses for you to ponder:
“Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.”
(Galatians 2:16)
“O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?”
(Galatians 3:1-3)
I could cite many more, but the book isn’t long and is best read in its entirety.
And Paul said the Gospel he preaches in Galatians *is* the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
“I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.
But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.”
(Galatians 1:6-12)
30 Nov 21
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@pb1022 saidYou are tripping up yourself with your church lingo. There is no such thing as 'salvation by grace' v 'salvation by works'. those labels were designed to create divisions between the churches and to make the boast that you are better than other other churches.
And by the way, I don’t know where you live, but I think most churches in America preach *your* doctrine of salvation by works.
There is only ONE SALVATION and it is this:
Salvation and Eternal life through Jesus Christ
This means that you follow the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
Paul followed
Peter followed
James followed
John followed
However, your church is not following, instead you are digging up doctrines not taught by Christ and proclaiming that you are correct when Jesus preached nothing of the sort.
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30 Nov 21
@rajk999 saidHow do you know what my church follows? How do you even know I go to church?
You are tripping up yourself with your church lingo. There is no such thing as 'salvation by grace' v 'salvation by works'. those labels were designed to create divisions between the churches and to make the boast that you are better than other other churches.
There is only ONE SALVATION and it is this:
Salvation and Eternal life through Jesus Christ
This me ...[text shortened]... s not taught by Christ and proclaiming that you are correct when Jesus preached nothing of the sort.
You make a lot of assumptions about people you know nothing about.
In Galatians, the Apostle Paul says he preaches the Gospel of Jesus Christ and that he received it directly from Jesus Christ.
Paul then goes on to say what the Gospel of Jesus Christ is.
It’s worth re-reading Galatians.
30 Nov 21
@pb1022 saidYou mean Paul preached the Gospel of Jesus Christ
How do you know what my church follows? How do you even know I go to church?
You make a lot of assumptions about people you know nothing about.
In Galatians, the Apostle Paul says he preaches the Gospel of Jesus Christ and that he received it directly from Jesus Christ.
Paul then goes on to say what the Gospel of Jesus Christ is.
It’s worth re-reading Galatians.
BUT
Jesus Christ did not preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ ???
I got it, thanks. 😀
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30 Nov 21
@rajk999 saidNever said that.
You mean Paul preached the Gospel of Jesus Christ
BUT
Jesus Christ did not preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ ???
I got it, thanks. 😀
You’re the one who said:
“Jesus Christ, Peter, James, John, Paul .... all preached the very same thing”
and you said that on this very page of this thread.
That statement from you is what I was responding to.
30 Nov 21
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@pb1022 saidI said they all preached the very same Gospel Message.of Jesus Christ. That means that the essential features of this Gospel is to be found in the teachings of ALL OF THEM. The passages you keep quoting and saying that I need to read it [ and I have, many times], can only be found in the writings of Paul. Therefore those points [which you keep making] made by Pau and which are found only in his books are not part of the Gospel Message of Jesus Christ.
Never said that.
You’re the one who said:
“Jesus Christ, Peter, James, John, Paul .... all preached the very same thing”
and you said that on this very page of this thread.
That statement from you is what I was responding to.
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30 Nov 21
@rajk999 saidBut Paul said in Galatians that the Gospel he preaches (and which he went on to preach in Galatians) *is* the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
I said they all preached the very same Gospel Message.of Jesus Christ. That means that the essential features of this Gospel is to be found in the teachings of ALL OF THEM. The passages you keep quoting and saying that I need to read it [ and I have, many times], can only be found in the writings of Paul. Therefore those points [which you keep making] made by Pau and which are found only in his books are not part of the Gospel Message of Jesus Christ.
And Paul said the Gospel he preaches in Galatians *is* the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
“I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.
But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.”
(Galatians 1:6-12)
Your argument is with Paul, not me.
30 Nov 21
@pb1022 saidOh ... so Jesus Christ gave Paul a gospel to preach, which He never gave to any of the other apostles - Peter, James, John etc, neither did Jesus himself preach that Gospel.
But Paul said in Galatians that the Gospel he preaches (and which he went on to preach in Galatians) *is* the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
And Paul said the Gospel he preaches in Galatians *is* the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
“I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
Which is not another; but there be some th ...[text shortened]... but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.”
(Galatians 1:6-12)
Your argument is with Paul, not me.
I dont think so.
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30 Nov 21
@rajk999 saidLike I said, your argument is with Paul, not me.
Oh ... so Jesus Christ gave Paul a gospel to preach, which He never gave to any of the other apostles - Peter, James, John etc, neither did Jesus himself preach that Gospel.
I dont think so.
But this is Peter speaking in Acts:
“Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.”
(Acts 2:37-41)
Notice how sins are remitted; it’s not by good works.
Notice that 3,000 souls were saved immediately. They didn’t have to spend the rest of their lives wondering if they were saved and trying to earn their salvation.
30 Nov 21
@pb1022 saidYou think that's the whole story.... the whole Gospel? Is that all Peter preached?
Like I said, your argument is with Paul, not me.
But this is Peter speaking in Acts:
“Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall ...[text shortened]... ve to spend the rest of their lives wondering if they were saved and trying to earn their salvation.
Or Paul .. Saved by Grace through faith not by works and that's all he said ?
What about the rest of Galatians?
You are omitting the most important part of the gospel... Paul called it the MEAT OF THE WORD... something immature Christians ignore and they have to be told over and over.
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30 Nov 21
@rajk999 saidWe’re talking about salvation, right?
You think that's the whole story.... the whole Gospel? Is that all Peter preached?
Or Paul .. Saved by Grace through faith not by works and that's all he said ?
What about the rest of Galatians?
You are omitting the most important part of the gospel... Paul called it the MEAT OF THE WORD... something immature Christians ignore and they have to be told over and over.
How one gets saved, right?
How do you dispute what Peter and Paul said?
I think you’re again conflating salvation with how a Christian is expected to behave *after* he’s saved.
And I’d argue it’s immature Christians who don’t understand Grace and are wrapped up in the “Do good, get good, do bad, get bad” mentality of this world.