@pb1022 saidThe Gospel Message of Jesus Christ is what people need to know and to do, to get eternal life, nothing more, nothing less. It is a specific body of knowledge that Jesus preached and what the 12 and 70 disciples heard, and what they also preached all over Israel. Before these disciples when out to preach Jesus had preached the Gospel in the parts of Israel where he travelled. This is recorded in the first 10 chapters of Matthew and Luke. These chapters contain the full and complete Gospel Message, and it is the very same Gospel Message preached by Paul and all the Apostles. You are adding to this Message, and making statements beyond your authority
Nobody said they didn’t like good works. All I’ve said is they’re not a requirement for salvation, but evidence of salvation, and I stated why.
Lets take some of your statements and see if they are part of the Gospel of Jesus Christ
1. You say : Good works is not a requirement for salvation, but evidence of salvation
The Gospel Message of Jesus did not included that
2. You say : good works without belief and faith in Jesus Christ and in His Resurrection don’t save.
The Gospel Message of Jesus did not included that
3. You say Good works don’t forgive people of their sins.
The Gospel Message of Jesus did not included that
I am not saying that these statements you made are not in the bible or that they are incorrect. They are in the bible but that does not make them critical knowledge for eternal life. You are not at liberty to make that call about what is required or important or who or what saves and who gets eternal life. That is the job of Jesus Christ and he said no such thing.. It is not Pauls job either. Paul preached the entire Gospel message of Jesus and what is critical was preached by all the Apostles and Disciples and by Christ. Churches however have introduced a different set of rules not preached by Jesus Christ, and that is the problem with the Christian churches. The Gospel Message of the Churches is not the Gospel Message of Christ and the Apostles
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29 Nov 21
@rajk999 saidSure, but I think you’re mixing apples and oranges.
Do you know what the Gospel Message of Jesus Christ was all about?
We were talking about how one gets saved (obtains salvation, eternal life, etc.)
How one should conduct himself and behave while on earth is a separate subject.
I think you’re trying to make them both the same thing when they’re not.
Once someone gets saved, do you think that’s all there is, that Jesus cares about nothing else?
If someone gets saved at 18 (accepts and believes in Jesus Christ and in His Resurrection,) do you think I believe Jesus is like, “Great you’re saved. Now spend the next 50 or 60 years living it up and trashing people.”
No. Once someone is saved, and imo, that happens instantly and irreversibly when they accept and believe in Jesus Christ and in His Resurrection, Jesus is telling them what He expects of them as sons of God.
But just as a son who’s disobedient to his earthly father doesn’t lose his status as a son, so a son of God who’s disobedient to his heavenly Fathee doesn’t lose his status as a son of God.
Do you know the Parable of the Prodigal Son? What do you think the lesson is in that? Did the Prodigal Son lose his status as a son when he squandered his inheritance on riotous living? Or did his father run to embrace him when the son returned to him?
God may chasten, even scourge, one of His disobedient children, but that child of God is still a child of God.
“For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.”
(Hebrews 12:6-11)
29 Nov 21
@pb1022 saidYou are starting to ramble and go off the point. You are claiming to know the Gospel Message of Jesus Christ. To prove that you are quoting Paul?
Sure, but I think you’re mixing apples and oranges.
We were talking about how one gets saved (obtains salvation, eternal life, etc.)
How one should conduct himself and behave while on earth is a separate subject.
I think you’re trying to make them both the same thing when they’re not.
Once someone gets saved, do you think that’s all there is, that Jesus cares about ...[text shortened]... th the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.”
(Hebrews 12:6-11)
Tell me what Jesus said about getting saved, obtaining salvation and eternal life
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29 Nov 21
@rajk999 saidWell it’s obvious we’re not going to agree on this and I really don’t feel like repeating myself over and over again.
The Gospel Message of Jesus Christ is what people need to know and to do, to get eternal life, nothing more, nothing less. It is a specific body of knowledge that Jesus preached and what the 12 and 70 disciples heard, and what they also preached all over Israel. Before these disciples when out to preach Jesus had preached the Gospel in the parts of Israel where he travelled. ...[text shortened]... . The Gospel Message of the Churches is not the Gospel Message of Christ and the Apostles
You believe in salvation by works.
I believe in salvation by grace through faith.
Good works don’t forgive sins. And the forgiveness of sins is what gets someone eternal life and a home in Heaven.
“For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.”
(Romans 6:23)
In your doctrine, you’ve made Jesus into nothing but a Pharisee, exhorting people to keep the Old Testament Law.
Let me ask you this: Do you think Jesus was just a man or was He the Son of God?
And this: Was there any purpose to Jesus Christ’s crucifixion?
Lastly: Do you believe Jesus Christ was Resurrected from the dead?
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29 Nov 21
@rajk999 saidI’m frankly not going to continue talking with you when you brush off legitimate points I make by saying they’re off topic.
You are starting to ramble and go off the point. You are claiming to know the Gospel Message of Jesus Christ. To prove that you are quoting Paul?
Tell me what Jesus said about getting saved, obtaining salvation and eternal life
Believe what you want. I couldn’t care less.
29 Nov 21
@pb1022 saidNobody asked you to repeat yourself over and over. You are doing that because you are afraid of the question.
Well it’s obvious we’re not going to agree on this and I really don’t feel like repeating myself over and over again.
You believe in salvation by works.
I believe in salvation by grace through faith.
Good works don’t forgive sins. And the forgiveness of sins is what gets someone eternal life and a home in Heaven.
“For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God ...[text shortened]... to Jesus Christ’s crucifixion?
Lastly: Do you believe Jesus Christ was Resurrected from the dead?
Here it is again. Tell me what the Gospel Message of Jesus Christ said about who gets saved.
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29 Nov 21
@rajk999 saidFor the 500th time:
You are starting to ramble and go off the point. You are claiming to know the Gospel Message of Jesus Christ. To prove that you are quoting Paul?
Tell me what Jesus said about getting saved, obtaining salvation and eternal life
“And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.”
(John 6:40)
29 Nov 21
@pb1022 saidI understand. You are trying to superimpose your church gospel over the Gospel Message of Jesus Christ. It just wont work.
I’m frankly not going to continue talking with you when you brush off legitimate points I make by saying they’re off topic.
Believe what you want. I couldn’t care less.
Of course you are entitled to have your church gospel but to claim it is the Gospel of Christ, or Paul etc, is incorrect.
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30 Nov 21
@Rajk999
You have a tendency to ignore legitimate posts and verses/passages from the Holy Bible that contradict your doctrine.
The following are only some of the questions you’ve ignored. Start answering them or don’t expect me to continue answering yours.
<<In your doctrine, how is Jesus any different than a Pharisee exhorting people to keep the Old Testament Law?
Do you think Jesus was just a man or was He the Son of God?
Was there any purpose to Jesus Christ’s crucifixion?
Do you believe Jesus Christ was Resurrected from the dead?
If good works forgive sins, why was there a sacrificial system in the Old Testament?
How do you respond to this statement from Jesus:
“For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.”
(Matthew 26:28)
What lesson do you take from the Parable of the Prodigal Son?>>
Address those points and I’ll continue answering your questions.
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30 Nov 21
@rajk999 saidDo you know what Gospel means? It means “Good News.”
Is that the Gospel Message of Jesus Christ?
What is the good news in your doctrine?
In your doctrine, Jesus Christ is irrelevant. It’s all Old Testament with you - only without the system of sacrificing animals to atone for sins. You think good works forgive sins.
Where in the Holy Bible does it say good works forgive sins?
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30 Nov 21
@Rajk999
<<Of course you are entitled to have your church gospel but to claim it is the Gospel of Christ, or Paul etc, is incorrect.>>
Really?
I guess someone other than Paul wrote this:
“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.”
(Ephesians 2:8-9)
30 Nov 21
@pb1022 saidThe Good News is the coming of the Messiah, who will save mankind.
Do you know what Gospel means? It means “Good News.”
What is the good news in your doctrine?
In your doctrine, Jesus Christ is irrelevant. It’s all Old Testament with you - only without the system of sacrificing animals to atone for sins. You think good works forgive sins.
Where in the Holy Bible does it say good works forgive sins?
Is there something I said that makes you think I believe Jesus Christ is irrelevant? If so then I think your reading skills are pretty poor.
30 Nov 21
@pb1022 saidThe Gospel Message of Jesus Christ and the Disciples does not include that statement. It is therefore not a critical matter for eternal life.
@Rajk999
<<Of course you are entitled to have your church gospel but to claim it is the Gospel of Christ, or Paul etc, is incorrect.>>
Really?
I guess someone other than Paul wrote this:
“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.”
(Ephesians 2:8-9)