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02 Dec 21
@rajk999 saidHow do you think people keep the commandments? Through willpower and self effort? Or through a changed heart that comes from God’s indwelt Holy Spirit that someone receives when they accept and believe in Jesus Christ?
Christ's brothers are those who keep the commandments
Christ's friends are those who keep the commandments
Christ's disciples are those who keep the commandments
Christ's sheep are those who keep the commandments
Christ's church are those who keep the commandments
Those who have accepted Christ are those who keep the commandments.
Those who profess faith have not acc ...[text shortened]...
Mouth professions of faith is worthless and only becomes fruitful when the commandments are kept.
All Christians, by definition, have accepted and believed in Jesus Christ. That’s what makes someone a Christian. Is a Muslim who keeps the commandments a Christian?
Yeah, “mouth professions” of faith are worthless. Real faith isn’t. Real faith is what forgives sins and saves. Real faith leads to God’s Holy Spirit indwelling someone and changing someone.
02 Dec 21
@rajk999 said"The first mouse gets the snap, the second gets the cheese."
Love God and your neighbour as yourself. As Jesus pointed out clearly that love for neighbour is a demonstration of love for God/ Him.
[i]And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. (Matthew 25:40 KJV)
If a man say, I love God, and hateth his broth ...[text shortened]... able , the Good Samaritan type
The first man gets damnation and the second gets eternal life.[/b]
02 Dec 21
1 edit
@pb1022 saidIt's a function of a poor text editor.
@Rajk999
Apologies…
No idea where these emojis came from but not interested in editing the post to remove them.
Text editors should only assume a portion of text is an emoji if surrounded (both sides) by white space, but this does not.
02 Dec 21
@pb1022 saidWe seem to agree here. This is a critical point of doctrine. There are Christians here on this site who post and support that a profession of faith leads to eternal life in the end at some point, sooner or later. This is a false doctrine and you seem to agree with me on that. Some who profess faith are not genuine as is evidenced by their conduct and lifestyle subsequent to conversion.
We may actually agree here.
Repentance (to change one’s mind about sinful behavior and to turn away from sin) is obviously important, but where I think we disagree is you seem to think that can be accomplished solely through willpower and self-effort, and I say it’s accomplished through the power of God’s indwelt Holy Spirit in changing someone’s heart.
Your way may work ...[text shortened]... ut you’re forcing me to:
Professing belief and faith are not the same as having belief and faith.
The funny thing is that you have not spoke against that doctrine and allowed it to pass.
02 Dec 21
@pb1022 saidYour church has really messed up your ability to think clearly. You say .. I don’t think eternal life is contingent on them keeping the commandments. .. And then you continue on to quote Paul telling these born again Christians that if they did not live righteously and avoid sin [in other words KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS], they will not inherit the Kingdom of God.
Unlike you, I don’t think eternal life is contingent on them keeping the commandments.
that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Quoting again Jesus who said :
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. (Revelation 22:13-15 KJV)
Those who keep the commandments get life and Evil doers get damnation
You are really confused.... and this line about Christians having the Holy Spirit therefore all sins are forgiven [ie the licence to sin doctrine], is utter garbage.
@pb1022 saidNothing in the Gospel Message of Jesus Christ says that people cannot keep the commandments and that they must have Gods Indwelt Holy Spirit to do it.
How do you think people keep the commandments? Through willpower and self effort? Or through a changed heart that comes from God’s indwelt Holy Spirit that someone receives when they accept and believe in Jesus Christ?
Jesus told people to GO AND SIN NO MORE
The Christian church tells people they cannot stop sinning
Jesus told people to do good works
The Christian church tells people they cannot do good works
That idea that people are cannot live righteously and do good works is what the churches have put into peoples head so that their bank accounts will be fat. And it works because people are basically stupid fools and will not read the bible for themselves. Most of the church teachings are contrary to the Gospel of Christ, and many are just plain outright lies.
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02 Dec 21
@suzianne saidKind of the opposite of “The early bird catches the worm.”
"The first mouse gets the snap, the second gets the cheese."
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02 Dec 21
@rajk999 saidI don’t see people on here (maybe I’m missing it) talking about professing faith and professing belief. Unless I misread posts, I’ve read about having faith and having belief.
We seem to agree here. This is a critical point of doctrine. There are Christians here on this site who post and support that a profession of faith leads to eternal life in the end at some point, sooner or later. This is a false doctrine and you seem to agree with me on that. Some who profess faith are not genuine as is evidenced by their conduct and lifestyle subsequent to ...[text shortened]... version.
The funny thing is that you have not spoke against that doctrine and allowed it to pass.
Professing and having, or better put, professing and possessing, are two different things. If I profess I have $1 million dollars, that’s not necessarily the same as actually having it.
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02 Dec 21
@rajk999 saidI already responded to this, but I guess I will again.
Your church has really messed up your ability to think clearly. You say .. I don’t think eternal life is contingent on them keeping the commandments. .. And then you continue on to quote Paul telling these born again Christians that if they did not live righteously and avoid sin [in other words KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS], they will not inherit the Kingdom of God.
...[text shortened]... the Holy Spirit therefore all sins are forgiven [ie the licence to sin doctrine], is utter garbage.
You’re, imo, confusing someone who repeats the same sin so often (and therefore willfully) that it defines him, with someone who commits a sin, recognizes his mistake and repents.
Is someone who commits a murder at 16 forever barred from Heaven for the rest of his life? He is a murderer, after all.
Christians will continue to commit sins, though the frequency should obviously be dramatically less once they’ve accepted and believed in Jesus Christ and received God’s Holy Spirit.
The Apostle Paul talked in Romans 7 about his struggles to do what’s right and not to do what’s evil, and he talked about the struggle between the Spirit and the flesh in Galatians.
No one is saying keeping the commandments and doing good works isn’t important. They’re evidence of salvation and God’s indwelling Holy Spirit.
But your apparent idea that one has to live a perfect, sinless life after accepting and believing in Jesus Christ is ludicrous. We’re not in the Old Testament, and your belief that God is constantly judging and condemning His children is flat-out false.
Read Romans 8:1.
God may chasten and even scourge one of His children who is repeatedly sinning, but that is not punishment - it’s for their own good, much as an earthly father disciplines his children when they do wrong. But God chastening one of His children is quite a bit different from taking away their salvation.
“For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.”
(Romans 8:38-39)
God’s indwelt Holy Spirit changes someone’s heart and therefore behavior. But they won’t be perfect - just read of the Apostle Paul’s struggles in Romans 7 and the power of the Holy Spirit in Galatians.
What do you think was the point of the Parable of the Prodigal Son?
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02 Dec 21
@rajk999 saidWow! When was the last time you were in a church? Were you ever in a church?
Nothing in the Gospel Message of Jesus Christ says that people cannot keep the commandments and that they must have Gods Indwelt Holy Spirit to do it.
Jesus told people to GO AND SIN NO MORE
The Christian church tells people they cannot stop sinning
Jesus told people to do good works
The Christian church tells people they cannot do good works
That idea that peopl ...[text shortened]... of the church teachings are contrary to the Gospel of Christ, and many are just plain outright lies.
No church I know of (or have been to) tells Christians that they cannot do good works and cannot live righteously. Where do you get that from?
As far as sinning, Jesus Christ said a man who looks on a woman with lust has committed adultery with her in his heart. And you’re telling me God expects a Christian to live a perfect, sinless life?
And what did Jesus tell the woman caught in adultery before he told her to go and sin no more? He said, “Neither do I condemn thee.” The gift of no condemnation is what breaks the power of sin and empowers someone to live a life of not sinning (though not to 100%.) As the Apostle Paul said, we are still in the flesh and in our flesh dwells no good thing.
If Christians are expected to live perfect, sinless lives (as you seem to think,) why was the Apostle Paul struggling (and failing) to do what’s right and avoid doing what’s evil in Romans 7? And Paul wrote most of the New Testament!
Why did the Apostle John write this:
“If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.”
(1 John 1:9-10)
If you’re *not* saying Christians are expected to live perfect, sinless lives after becoming Christians but should realize the importance and value of keeping the commandments and doing good works, then I’d say we’re in agreement.
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02 Dec 21
@PB1022
But if I write the encouraging news about calling on the Lord to touch Him and receive grace, empowering, vitality to obey, he fights it tooth and nail.
Calling, praying, pray-reading, musing, turning the heart to the Lord and speaking out to the Lord are all for receiving the empowering grace to live Christ.
But this he fights. He want's to keep people APART from Christ.
You noticed it yourself. Rajk999 way of handling the Gospel is to entice men AWAY from fellowshipping with Jesus.
Who is behind this in the spiritual realm?
I think rather:
"This persuasion is not of Him who calls you." (Gal, 5:8)
02 Dec 21
@pb1022 saidAnswered all this already. It really is annoying when people deliberately choose not to understand
Wow! When was the last time you were in a church? Were you ever in a church?
No church I know of (or have been to) tells Christians that they cannot do good works and cannot live righteously. Where do you get that from?
As far as sinning, Jesus Christ said a man who looks on a woman with lust has committed adultery with her in his heart. And you’re telling me God expects ...[text shortened]... ortance and value of keeping the commandments and doing good works, then I’d say we’re in agreement.
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02 Dec 21
@rajk999 saidNo you didn’t. Claiming you answered questions when you didn’t is dishonest and a dodge.
Answered all this already. It really is annoying when people deliberately choose not to understand
02 Dec 21
@pb1022 saidSonship does that all the time. He says once a man professes faith he is saved eternally and not even God destroy him, regardless of the amount of sins he commits. He says the man will be punished but still get eternal life. Ask him
I don’t see people on here (maybe I’m missing it) talking about professing faith and professing belief. Unless I misread posts, I’ve read about having faith and having belief.
Professing and having, or better put, professing and possessing, are two different things. If I profess I have $1 million dollars, that’s not necessarily the same as actually having it.
02 Dec 21
@pb1022 saidChurches tell people there is no need for good works. They are samed and they have eternal life. Good works is trying to save yourself. You say it all the time. And Jesus said that NEVER.
No church I know of (or have been to) tells Christians that they cannot do good works and cannot live righteously. Where do you get that from?