Originally posted by @sonshipIf you want the site to purge all non-believers from the Spirituality Forum then contact the site itself. Don't just make deceitful comments about what non-believers say to you in debates and discussions and what their motivations are. Bigotry?
Yes you. Bigotry disguised in just about all your objective sounding inquiries.
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I've been through this before.
Christians of the world are a different breed from the Christians who preach the doctrine of Christ. You are a World Christian, I follow Christ. So you are correct in that I am not a Christian like you are.
I am beginning to suspect I have been correct. You're not my brother in Christ.
As for the first nonsensical part about World Christians.
Who talks more about the EKKLESIA the called OUT of the world. You or me?
I do because it is my experience.
I doubt that there is one other human being you are coordinated with in your "spiritual" pursuits.
A Christian should be built up with others in love and in the Spirit. You're sick with individualistic independence which you wear as some sort of sickening badge of honor.
You will notice that every disagreement we have, I take the side of what Christ preached while to take some other doctrine.
I never noticed that at all.
I do notice that you have no answer for some things in Scripture. Before this post is over you'll get a demonstration of that, I bet.
Here we go.
Regeneration :
Jesus said it will take place when he comes.
You say you are already regenerated
Only partially true.
Peter uses "regeneration" in the PAST TENSE as having OCCURRED to Christians.
"Having BEEN regenerated not of corruptible seed but of incorruptible, through the living and abiding word of God." (1 Peter 1:23)
This is BEFORE the second coming of Christ.
Likewise: REGENERATED as PAST TENSE in 1 Peter 1:3.
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has REGENERATED US unto a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from among the dead." (1 Pet. 1:3)
Maybe you are just not one of the "us" who have been regenerated. Maybe "our Lord Jesus Christ" is not yours.
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I don't recall Rajk999 having an answer for First Peter 1:23 and 1:3 before years ago. I don't expect him to be able to answer for these past tense usages of REGENERATED now either.
Whoever he thinks he's showing off to, it is not very effective if they want to truly learn the New Testament teaching.
Originally posted by @sonshipBeen through this before indeed. First Im not your brother in Christ. My brothers in Christ are those who believe in the teachings of Christ pertaining to good works, as detailed in Matt chap 5, 6 and 7.
I been through this before.
Christians of the world are a different breed from the Christians who preach the doctrine of Christ. You are a World Christian, I follow Christ. So you are correct in that I am not a Christian like you are.
I am beginning to suspect I have been correct. You're not my brother in Christ.
As for the first ...[text shortened]... of the [b]"us" who have been regenerated. Maybe "our Lord Jesus Christ" is not yours.[/b]
Next unless you can move like the wind you are not regenerated. Jesus said that very clearly.
If you can move like the wind let me know.
As for your twisting of the Bible in 1 Peter. My KJV says this:
Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. (1 Peter 1:22-23 KJV)
No mention of regeneration.
05 Jan 18
Originally posted by @sonshipYou are a total dunce. The word REGENERATED does not appear in the KJV.
I don't recall Rajk999 having an answer for [b]First Peter 1:23 and 1:3 before years ago. I don't expect him to be able to answer for these past tense usages of REGENERATED now either.
Whoever he thinks he's showing off to, it is not very effective if they want to truly learn the New Testament teaching.[/b]
Years ago I told you that. I dont need to refute any fake quote which you provide.
Provide quotes from the KJV and we can discuss it.
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Originally posted by @sonshipBecker is the only poster I have ever asked to stop responding to my posts (if all the 16 years I have used on-line forums). His constant tactic of repetition and mis-remembering responses already given him makes communication with him profoundly pointless and unenjoyable. (Profoundly so). I will 'always' respond to every other poster and have no fear of being 'cross-examined' (which I'm surprised you are not already aware of, considering our shared history).
I could well ask the same of you.
Around here if you want to examine others you should be willing to be cross-examined yourself.
I could avoid some tedium and ask you to stop responding to my posts.
Then if a poster cannot cross-examine you,
then I can ask you not to respond to me as well.
Should we play it that way?
Becker is free of course to post in whatever thread he wants and engage with any poster that doesn't mind engaging with him. I don't think it unreasonable however for him simply not to respond directly to me, knowing as he does that I have no interest in responding to him and going other things already discussed in minute detail.
To be honest though sonship. you are an entirely different kettle of fish. You certainly 'do not' like being cross examined and having your core beliefs held under the microscope. (With good reason).
Ask me 'once' however not to respond to your posts and I would respectfully oblige, without any hard feelings.
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Originally posted by @rajk999
No mention of regeneration.[/b]
Been through this before indeed. First Im not your brother in Christ.
So now it comes out of your own mouth.
My brothers in Christ are those who believe in the teachings of Christ pertaining to good works, as detailed in Matt chap 5, 6 and 7.
No, you use Matthew 5,6,7 to fight against the New Testament.
Your usage of Matthew 5,6,7 argues that the new covenant is not (Matt.26:27,28) .
You use Matthew 5,6,7 to remain in the Old Covenant law keeping as a means of justification. I don't think you even recognize Christ as Emmanuel - "God with us".
Next unless you can move like the wind you are not regenerated.
That's not what it says.
That's never what I passed on to anyone.
Jesus said that very clearly.
If you can move like the wind let me know.
That's not what it says.
That's not what I have ever taught.
As for your twisting of the Bible in 1 Peter. My KJV says this:
Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. (1 Peter 1:22-23 KJV)
Most of the English translations I looked up for that verse do say 'born again." But you have to the best of my recollection argued the same thing for born again - it has to wait into the second coming of Christ.
Did you not argue that way in the past?
Yes or No ?
First Peter 1:4
Various English translations:
Berean Study Bible
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! By His great mercy, He has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
Berean Literal Bible
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the One according to His great mercy having begotten us again to a living hope, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ out from the dead,
Douay-Rheims Bible
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy hath regenerated us unto a lively hope, by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
Recovery Version
... according to His great mercy has regenerated us unto a living hope ..."
Young's Literal Translation
Blessed is the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who, according to the abundance of His kindness did beget us again to a living hope, through the rising again of Jesus Christ out of the dead,
GENERATE can be born or begotten.
RE-GENERATE can be born anew, born again, begotten again.
How could He make believers alive unless He RE-generates them ?
How could the believers be once dead and now alive unless they are re-generated by God's Spirit?
How could believers be made alive together with Christ unless they are RE-generated with new life?
How could Christ the "life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45) not come into people to give life - NEW life - ie. RE-generate them ?
A man is generated once when physically born.
A man is RE-GENERATED when he is born anew, born again, born from above, and born of the Spirit of Christ.
The English word regeneration IS used to speak of THE restoration in the millennial kingdom in Matthew 19:28.
You cannot use that usage to argue that we are not regenerated be being born again when receiving Christ.
Twenty-two passages on regeneration
https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Regeneration
Sometimes regeneration means being born again.
Sometimes as in Titus 3:5 it involves not just birth but re-making, re-molding.
None of these nuances can be stressed for the purpose of denying that to be born again can also be called being regenerated.
As seen above:
Douay-Rheims Bible
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy hath regenerated us unto a lively hope, by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
Originally posted by @rajk999Sonship has left the building!! If you are still there, then Please quote from the KJV where the word REGENERATED appears.
You are a total dunce. The word REGENERATED does not appear in the KJV.
Years ago I told you that. I dont need to refute any fake quote which you provide.
Provide quotes from the KJV and we can discuss it.
What you use is another version of the Bible designed and written to suit YOUR PET DOCTRINES. Its the same thing several Christian sects do. They rewrite the bible to suit their doctrines and then quote from these rewritten versions as if it were the truth. The same thing you condemn the JWs for doing, is the same thing you are now doing.
Failing that, quote from the original Greek manuscripts and show me where the word REGENERATED appears. Please do not twist the meaning of the word 'anagennaō' which simply means 'to beget'.
Thank you.
Originally posted by @sonship[b]Been through this before indeed. First Im not your brother in Christ.
So now it comes out of your own mouth.
My brothers in Christ are those who believe in the teachings of Christ pertaining to good works, as detailed in Matt chap 5, 6 and 7.
No, you use Matthew 5,6,7 to fight against the New Testament ...[text shortened]... nerated us [/b] unto a lively hope, by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, [/quote][/b]Nonsense. .. REGENERATED is not in the bible.
No Im not your brother in Christ.
You do not believe in Christ with your heart.
You believe with your mouth.
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Originally posted by @rajk999Did you or did you not argue in the past that "born again" did not pertain to the church age but to something only after the second coming of Christ?
Nonsense. .. REGENERATED is not in the bible.
No Im not your brother in Christ.
You do not believe in Christ with your heart.
You believe with your mouth.
Did you once make that argument or NOT ?
Have you CHANGED your mind about that? Good if you have.
If you have not, you're still wrong.
And I believe with my heart and I confess with my mouth Jesus is Lord. I know that I have eternal life.
No bragging involved. Biblical FACT which by His mercy I believe.
"I have written these things to you that you may know that you have eternal life, to you who believe into the name of the Son of God." (1 John 5:13)
Don't be mad with me because you don't have the assurance of your salvation. Get saved by receiving Christ as your only hope, the only merit you can stand on, your only justification before God.
KJV is just an English translation.
It is not the only one.
It is not even the best one in all respects.
Regenerated is in the Bible.
You must be hoping that you can enter into the kingdom of God without being regenerated.
Jesus said you MUST be born anew.
You're teaching "That's not necessary and not possible until the second coming."
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Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
Becker is the only poster I have ever asked to stop responding to my posts (if all the 16 years I have used on-line forums). His constant tactic of repetition and mis-remembering responses already given him makes communication with him profoundly pointless and unenjoyable. (Profoundly so). I will 'always' respond to every other poster and have no fe ...[text shortened]... however not to respond to your posts and I would respectfully oblige, without any hard feelings.
To be honest though sonship. you are an entirely different kettle of fish. You certainly 'do not' like being cross examined and having your core beliefs held under the microscope. (With good reason).
Bolderdash.
I may not like to argue with the same person ad naseum ad infinitum.
But I know and remember what it was to want to have something explained if possible. And you cannot pen on me that I don't like to be critically examined.
As a matter of fact I have been caught telling people - "That question is too hard. Ask me something easier."
Why not?
Originally posted by @sonshipYou have nothing except empty delusions placed in your little brain by deceitful preachers.
Did you or did you not argue in the past that [b]"born again" did not pertain to the church age but to something only after the second coming of Christ?
Did you once make that argument or NOT ?
Have you CHANGED your mind about that? Good if you have.
If you have not, you're still wrong.
And I believe with my heart and I confess with my mouth ...[text shortened]... be born anew.
You're teaching "That's not necessary and not possible until the second coming."[/b]
Everyone awaits the day of judgment in order to receive anything.
The righteous are promised eternal life.
Mouth worshipers are promised eternal damnation.
Even Paul said that he needs to be careful, Paul was a wise man but you are a greedy gimmee gimmee selfish mouthworshipping imbecile.
And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway. (1 Corinthians 9:25-27 KJV)
Every man in his own order. Right now you are a human being with a hope of eternal life. Stop being an arrogant dick.
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Originally posted by @rajk999Galatians 5:16 says “So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.“
The Regeneration preached by the sonship type and others is bull.
Anyone can walk in the spirit. Walking in the spirit just means to do as Jesus Christ commanded. Many people do it .. particularly nonChristians.
Do you think everyone can stop gratifying the desires of the flesh in their own strength or do you think the verse in Galatians is bull?
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05 Jan 18
Originally posted by @suzianneI fully agree. I am simply trying to explain why it is a part of God’s nature to punish sin.
This is the kind of thinking that man has tried for thousands of years now, with less than stellar results. Some 'good' or 'evil' is obvious, but the problem arises when the 'good' and 'evil' are more subjective. Who makes the call? You? Me?
This is why we are instructed to "love God with all of our heart" AND to "love your neighbor as you love yourselves". Judgement is not our job.
Originally posted by @dj2beckerWhat is bull is your constant insertion of words and phrases in these quotes.
Galatians 5:16 says “So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.“
Do you think everyone can stop gratifying the desires of the flesh in their own strength or do you think the verse in Galatians is bull?
Where did Paul say 'in their own strength'? Nowhere is the answer.
Ask a question relevant to the quote and I will reply.