Christians/Muslims

Originally posted by FMF
Let me get this straight once and for all.

You have freely - and without being prompted - divulged that you were subjected to psychological abuse as a child, about which you are clearly in denial.

You even directed us to a web site where we could find out more about the abuse that went on.

I am not interested in discussing ~ with you ~ my own parenti ...[text shortened]... ours.

Perhaps you feel entitled to have access to such personal information. But you are not.

Of course not all you really are interested in is labeling people and pretending to be Dr Phil.

Originally posted by FMF
You are being disingenuous. Psychological abuse often happens because of - or in situations where there are - rules, threats, and punishments. The existence of rules, threats, and punishments does not equate psychological abuse. But you know this. You're just trying a rhetorical gimmick. The deprivation you were subjected to was in terms of your intellectual and ...[text shortened]... demic upbringing and the restrictions placed on your development of interpersonal relationships.

Thanks for proving my point. The existence of rules, threats, and punishments does not equate psychological abuse. So why then are you arguing that the existence of rules, threats and punishments equate to me being psychologically abused?

Originally posted by dj2becker
Of course not all you really are interested in is labeling people and pretending to be Dr Phil.

I have engaged you on the disturbing things you have chosen to reveal.

I still think you made it all up and that this is the reason for your gimmicky, clueless squirming.

But, taken at face value, your pitiful story and [if it were to be true] your utter and complete failure to reflect upon what was done to you, would suggest that you are both damaged and in denial about it.

However, if I were a betting man, I would say it is all a fiction intended to give you some sort of temporary angle in an internet discussion, like Ghost of a Duke has Herculepoirotted.

Originally posted by dj2becker
So why then are you arguing that the existence of rules, threats and punishments equate to me being psychologically abused?

Because of what you described and what I found at the web site you directed me to.

Originally posted by FMF
Because of what you described and what I found at the web site you directed me to.

What I described was the existence of rules, threats, deprivations and punishment was it not? And it involved specific incidents that happened to specific people. That doesn't mean I experienced the exact same thing. My parents never threatened to ostracize even though other parents did. That is one reason why my parents left because that is something they did not agree with.

Originally posted by dj2becker
Feel free to educate me I'm all ears.

'Brainwashing' is an abuse on an individual's psychology. It invariably occurs in an environment where there is an imbalance of power and where prolonged indoctrination is possible. - To try and draw schools and the like into this definition is just plain silly. Places of education are regulated and closely monitored by outside agencies. 'Cults' are not.

Now you 'claim' to have been part of a cult and gave a description that clearly indicates brainwashing at work. (Even if you 'rather strangely' don't equate brainwashing with necessarily being a bad thing). The environment you depicted was one of clear psychological abuse, irrespective of your belief that you got through it unscathed. Indeed, that could just be an indication that the brainwashing was successful.

*The above though is just hypothetical, as your cult claims remain highly dubious.

Originally posted by dj2becker
What I described was the existence of rules, threats, deprivations and punishment was it not?

What you described was a thumbnail sketch (and corroborating online resource) of prolonged, systematic abuse and deprivation that I could take to a seminar on psychological abuse and there wouldn't be a single qualified and experienced person in attendance who would approach the story or interpret it, or employ all the weird little debating tricks that you have employed on this thread, to downplay what it clearly was.

FMF: You consulted a web site in order to check details of what living in a cult is like. You admitted to it.

Originally posted by dj2becker
No the website I referenced was the one that referenced the characteristics of a cult. When I read the characteristics I noticed that most of them described the situation I grew up in and thus I was able to see the place for what it was.

That you could get to the age of 24 and still not realize that you were in a cult is pretty clear evidence of the basic intellectual deprivation you had suffered.

Originally posted by FMF
What you described was a thumbnail sketch (and corroborating online resource) of prolonged, systematic abuse and deprivation that I could take to a seminar on psychological abuse and there wouldn't be a single qualified and experienced person in attendance who would approach the story or interpret it, or employ all the weird little debating tricks that you have employed on this thread, to downplay what it clearly was.

Every couple of years I have to go on a refresher training course about abuse, and invariably the trainer hands out a list of scenarios where in groups we have to identify the kinds of abuse going on. (The most common being physical, sexual, psychological, emotional, financial, discriminatory, neglect or acts of omission, self neglect).

FecthMyJunk/2nd accounts example of his apparent time in a cult is a 'textbook scenario' where everybody on the training course would immediately identify psychological and emotional abuse (at the very least).

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Every couple of years I have to go on a refresher training course about abuse, and invariably the trainer hands out a list of scenarios where in groups we have to identify the kinds of abuse going on. (The most common being physical, sexual, psychological, emotional, financial, discriminatory, neglect or acts of omission, self neglect).

FecthMyJun ...[text shortened]... raining course would immediately identify psychological and emotional abuse (at the very least).

I'd say non-stop attacking someone who admitted their errors and asking for forgiveness
has to rate up there with abuse too, I'd put down that rock your holding, you are not without
faults either.

Originally posted by KellyJay
I'd say non-stop attacking someone who admitted their errors and asking for forgiveness has to rate up there with abuse too

Where has dj2becker "admitted errors" and where has he been "asking for forgiveness"?

What you characterize as "non-stop attacking" has in fact been a robust exploration of what psychological abuse is with someone in denial about what it is.

You seriously think this discussion "has to rate up there with" with the abuse he has described?

Originally posted by KellyJay
I'd say non-stop attacking someone who admitted their errors and asking for forgiveness
has to rate up there with abuse too, I'd put down that rock your holding, you are not without
faults either.

Your post sir just indicates that you haven't been following the thread and have more crossed wires than a poorly trained electrician.

His 'apology' for deceptively using multiple account is irrelevant to what does and does not constitute abuse. (It was an entirely different conversation).

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Your post sir just indicates that you haven't been following the thread and have more crossed wires than a poorly trained electrician.

I saw KellyJay's snippy partsan blurt as more of a premature ejaculation, for want of a better metaphor, than a case of "crossed wires".

Originally posted by dj2becker
What I described was the existence of rules, threats, deprivations and punishment was it not? And it involved specific incidents that happened to specific people. That doesn't mean I experienced the exact same thing.

What you experienced is presumably what you described in those 220 words on page 5 of this thread, was it not? The violence and sexual abuse - however much of it there was - stands apart from what you have claimed happened to you personally. That is what is being analyzed here: your revelations about yourself and your own experience. "Specific incidents that happened to specific people" are neither here not there, unless you were aware of them at the time and they contributed to the regime of threats held over you and the other children.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
'Brainwashing' is an abuse on an individual's psychology. It invariably occurs in an environment where there is an imbalance of power and where prolonged indoctrination is possible. - To try and draw schools and the like into this definition is just plain silly. Places of education are regulated and closely monitored by outside agencies. 'Cults' are ...[text shortened]... uccessful.

*The above though is just hypothetical, as your cult claims remain highly dubious.

The question is not whether the environment was one of psychological abuse, it is obvious that it is. The question is whether or not I feel that I suffered psychological abuse.