If OSAS is in the Bible.

Originally posted by @eladar
You have never heard people preach salvation by grace and that our actions are work?

I am sure that throughout church history there has been many perversions of the truth at one extreme or another.

In the last two thousand years many perversions from one angle or another have cropped up. I can't think of anyone on this Forum who has gone to the extreme of saying Christian actions absolutely didn't matter at all.

Originally posted by @tom-wolsey
The goats did no good works. Name any Christian here who does no good works. You've said we're all goats. So. Prove it.

You all preach that good works are not required for eternal life.

Originally posted by @rajk999
You all preach that good works are not required for eternal life.

And you preach that the Christians here are goats that do no good works.

Originally posted by @tom-wolsey
And you preach that the Christians here are goats that do no good works.

How often have I said that I do not know what people DO.
I only know what they PREACH.

I base what I say on what YOU SAY.

Jesus said that GOOD WORKS ARE REQUIRED.
YOU say NO.. ONLY FAITH IS REQUIRED.

That I said is the doctrine of goats, because since they dont believe good works are required they therefore would not bother to do it.

Originally posted by @kellyjay
ESV Luke 13:
The Parable of the Barren Fig Tree
6 And he told this parable: “A man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard, and he came seeking fruit on it and found none. 7 And he said to the vinedresser, ‘Look, for three years now I have come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and I find none. Cut it down. Why should it use up the ground?’ 8 And he answere ...[text shortened]... ore than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us.

This shows that God is working and hoping that the tree will indeed produce fruit, time is
granted towards this end.

Yes. As I wrote earlier:
<<If you are thinking of Luke 13 and the parable of the fig tree, that only speaks to allowing some time for a tree to become "good". But unless and until that tree does become "good", Jesus will say, " "I never knew you, depart from me". >>

It's about as straight forward reading of Matthew 7:13-23 as you can get.

If you're having trouble understand what Jesus is saying there, it's even more straightforward and is in the same chapter as the parable of the fig tree :

Luke 13
23And someone said to Him, “Lord, are there just a few who are being saved?” And He said to them, 24“Strive to enter through the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able. 25“Once the head of the house gets up and shuts the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock on the door, saying, ‘Lord, open up to us!’ then He will answer and say to you, ‘I do not know where you are from.’ 26“Then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets’; 27and He will say, ‘I tell you, I do not know where you are from; DEPART FROM ME, ALL YOU EVILDOERS.’ 28“In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but yourselves being thrown out.

Jesus is clearly and explicitly speaking as to who is and is not "saved".
Jesus clearly and explicitly states that it is "evildoers" will not be "saved". They will not only not be "saved", Jesus will say to them, "I do not know where you are from; DEPART FROM ME".
As in Matthew 7, Jesus does not even "know them".

Once again this is about as straightforward reading as you can get.

Many Christians believe that the criteria for being "saved" is something very different from what Jesus clearly and explicitly states.
They believe that they can continue to "do evil" - which, for all intents and purposes, is the definition of "sin" - and are still "saved".
They believe that they can continue to "do evil" and "know Jesus" - and that Jesus "knows" them.
They believe in a very different "gospel" from the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry.
From what I can tell, you are one of those Christians.

While I understand that this is at odds with your beliefs, shouldn't what Jesus is teaching in Matthew 7:13-23 and Luke 13:23-28 supersede those beliefs?

Originally posted by @rajk999
That I said is the doctrine of goats, because since they dont believe good works are required they therefore would not bother to do it.

And therein lies the problem. You claim to know what others would or would not "bother to do."

As Jesus said, judge not lest ye be judged by the same measure. Shall those of us "goats" that you condemn to hell judge you using the same dishonesty?

Originally posted by @tom-wolsey
And therein lies the problem. You claim to know what others would or would not "bother to do."

As Jesus said, judge not lest ye be judged by the same measure. Shall those of us "goats" that you condemn to hell judge you using the same dishonesty?

Nonsense. OSAS basically are telling people not to bother to do good works and not to follow the commandments of Christ.

That pal, is a very dangerous position to take. You are contrary to Christ.
You quote Christ when it suits your purpose like what you are doing now.

Originally posted by @karoly-aczel
Why these questions over and over by you and others?

Oneupmanship ?

They always ask those questions whenever they are faced with points to which they are unable to formulate a cogent response. Which, as you noticed, is quite often.

If they believed what Jesus says in the gospel preached by Him during His ministry, they wouldn't ask those questions. But they don't believe Jesus.

Originally posted by @rajk999
Nonsense. OSAS basically are telling people not to bother to do good works and not to follow the commandments of Christ.

That pal, is a very dangerous position to take. You are contrary to Christ.
You quote Christ when it suits your purpose like what you are doing now.

Nonsense. OSAS doesn't tell people not to bother doing good works and not to follow the commandments of Christ.

And because you have resorted to calling me unChristian, a hellbound goat, and a liar... I'm forced to put you back on ignore until I see fit. Your dishonesty and constant condemning of others is contrary to Christ's teachings.

A major theory of Rajk999 is that the last judgment is seen in Matthew 25:31-46. He is wrong.

1.) It is a judgement of living people and not anyone dead. The judgment in Revelation 20 is of all the dead.

2.) It is a judgment at the commencement of the one thousand year millennial reign of Christ on earth. The judgment in Revelation 20 is clearly after the thousand years.

3.) The ones being judged in Matthew 25:31-46 did not know Christ. They only knew of persecuted brothers of Christ, down to the least of them. And they did not realize that their treatment of them was their treatment of Christ Himself.

4.) The judgment in Matthew 25:31-46 is that in the valley of Jehoshaphat predicted in Joel. This is solidly on earth. The last judgment of Revelation 20 has earth and heaven fled away from the face of the Judge. The judged are suspended with no ground beneath them.

"And I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose face earth and heaven fled away and no place was found for them.

And I saw the DEAD, the great and the small standing before the throne, ... "(Rev. 20:11,21a)

Standing on WHAT ?
There's standing as suspended in space before the dreadful holy face of God the Almighty.

But the judgment of Matthew 25:31-46 is in the Holy Land with living nations gathered before the Judge.

" But when the Son of Man comes in His glory and all the angels with Him, at that time He will sit on the throne of His glory. And all the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them from one another just as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. " (Matt. 25:31,32)

This is a fulfillment of the prophecy of Joel 3:11,12

"Hurry and come, All you surrounding nations, and be gathered. There cause Your mighty ones to descend, O Jehovah.

Let the nations rouse themselves and come up TO THE VALLEY OF JEHOSHAPHAT. For there I will sit to judge all the surrounding nations. " (Joel 3:11,12)

Rajk999, because of his short sighted-ness and rather sloppy understanding of the Bible thinks Matthew 25:31-46 is the last judgment, the same judgment of Revelation 20.

Soon I will prove that it is also not the judgment of Christians to reward them or discipline them at the judgment seat of Christ.

How do I know that ?
The logic is below.

Originally posted by @tom-wolsey
Nonsense. OSAS doesn't tell people not to bother doing good works and not to follow the commandments of Christ.

And because you have resorted to calling me unChristian, a hellbound goat, and a liar... I'm forced to put you back on ignore until I see fit. Your dishonesty and constant condemning of others is contrary to Christ's teachings.

Ok. I will leave you with your licence to sin doctrine.
And you can believe in Sonship who says Matt 25 judgment does not apply to you.
Go right ahead.

Hellbound Goat ... I like that one. Dont copyright it ... lol 😀

Originally posted by @rajk999
Ok. I will leave you with your licence to sin doctrine.

Hellbound Goat ... I like that one. Dont copyright it ... lol 😀

Rajk999 is use to leaving in a huff rather than offering better explanations of scriptures.

How do I know the judgment of Matthew 25:31-46 is not a judgment of Christians ?

It is because a judgement of Christians has ALREADY TAKEN PLACE. Otherwise the "mighty ones" who accompany Christ in His descent would not yet have been chosen.

"Hurry and come, All you surrounding nations, And be gathered.

THERE cause Your mighty ones to descend, O Jehovah." (Joel 3:11)

The mighty ones whom Christ causes to descend with Him could be either angels or overcoming saints rewarded to accompany Him back down to the earth AFTER their rapture.

I submit that either "Your mighty ones" is the rewarded overcoming saints. Of course it might include angelic beings too.

Revelation 17:14 says that the ones who accompany Jesus in the final battle at Armageddon are saints "called and chosen and faithful".

"These will make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, for He is Lord of lords and King of kings and THEY WHO ARE WITH HIM, the called and chosen and faithful, will overcome them" (Rev. 17:14)

Among all the saints raptured a judgment has ALREADY taken place as to which are to be rewarded to come back DOWN to the earth WITH CHRIST. The ones selected are not only CALLED and CHOSEN. But they have added to these FAITHFULNESS.

"they who are with Him, the called and chosen and faithful ... "

This means that before they COME DOWN as His mighty ones with Him, the decision has ALREADY been made as to who will be rewarded and not. Among all the called and chosen, the FAITHFUL will be rewarded.

Since they COME DOWN with Christ they have ALREADY been judged and rewarded.

At best they are the ones to whom Jesus POINTS TO as these His brothers down to the least of them. And they are NOT therefore among the sheep and the goats whom Christ is judging.

Originally posted by @sonship
Rajk999 is use to leaving in a huff rather than offering better explanations of scriptures.

How do I know the judgment of [b]Matthew 25:31-46 is not a judgment of Christians ?

It is because a judgement of Christians has ALREADY TAKEN PLACE. Otherwise the "mighty ones" who accompany Christ in His descend would not yet have been chosen. ...[text shortened]... least of them. And they are NOT therefore among the sheep and the goats whom Christ is judging.[/b]

If you say so ...LOL 😀.
Continue to lead the Hell-Bound Goats.

Originally posted by @rajk999
If you say so ...LOL 😀.
Continue to lead the Hell-Bound Goats.

Laughter and grinning like a fool.
But no well reasoned rebuttal.

Originally posted by @kellyjay
please produce scripture to back up your assertions

Why?
Can you refute it with scripture ?
Does it matter?
Surely what matters is what you think about my post, what? If an idea is unfound in biblical scripture then its no good ? Do you think Jesus wants you to think for yourself ?