- Joined
- 16 Feb 08
- Moves
- 121669
22 Sep 19
@secondson saidNo one has alleged claimed or stated that Jesus is IN the lake of fire.
It means Jesus is in the presence of, but not in the lake of fire.
Not difficult at at.
Are you being deliberately dim so you can avoid the topic?
- Joined
- 16 Feb 08
- Moves
- 121669
22 Sep 19
@secondson saidAsserting that your version of Jesus is not a torturer god when you believe that he is literally in the presence of those people being burnt alive for eternity is just utter stonewalling nonsense.
That accusation doesn't stand in the face of scripture.
Jesus is not a torturer God. He is just and His judgments "are true and righteous altogether".
Outer darkness is the final abode of the dead. "Where their worm dieth not". Where there will be "weeping and gnashing of teeth."
Quite literal.
And you know it.
- Joined
- 16 Feb 08
- Moves
- 121669
22 Sep 19
@divegeester saidSecondSon...
Revelation 14 says that a group of people will be casts into the lake of fire in the presence of the Lamb (Jesus) and his angels.
This is what I claim that you, sonship and KellyJay take as being literal.
Are you saying that it is metaphorical?
Yes or no?
- Joined
- 14 Mar 15
- Moves
- 29849
22 Sep 19
@kellyjay saidNo. Because you are speaking nonsense. I'm not hiding anything I believe. No words seem to satisfy you.
Does not matter the God of scripture has several attributes and if you add to or take away your not speaking about Him, but something of your own concoction. So you going to apologize to ToO for going after him for what you are doing?
Jog on.
- Joined
- 16 Feb 08
- Moves
- 121669
22 Sep 19
@divegeester saidSecondSon.
I see so as with KellyJay, in order to defend your horrible doctrine, your horrible version of God, you are defaulting to everything in Revelation being literal.
So the multi-headed beast being ridden by the whore who’s blood is soaked in the blood of Christians is LITERAL...?
Literal or not?
@ghost-of-a-duke saidDon’t be an ass, you can not do anything properly without all the necessary data. You think you can get a proper answer in math without accounting for every variable? Do you think any complex computer program will give the desired results functioning with most of the program turned off? You and ToO are two peas in a pod if you blow this off!
No. Because you are speaking nonsense. I'm not hiding anything I believe. No words seem to satisfy you.
Jog on.
22 Sep 19
@kellyjay saidThe "necessary data"?
Don’t be an ass, you can not do anything properly without all the necessary data. You think you can get a proper answer in math without accounting for every variable? Do you think any complex computer program will give the desired results functioning with most of the program turned off? You and ToO are two peas in a pod if you blow this off!
23 Sep 19
@chaney3 saidHell is just the grave where the body goes after death.
If the entire story of Jesus is true, then logically, there is no hell.
The soul goes back to God.
The lake of fire is not hell. but a place where evil people, both bodies and souls are destroyed.
@chaney3 saidNonsense, Jesus talked more about Hell than the rest of the Bible put together! Jesus didn't come speaking only peace and forgiveness, and if you read all, He was very plain-spoken about God's mercy and God's wrath, and He pulled no punches. He said incredibly; clearly, He didn't come to bring peace to the earth, but a sword, the divisions surround Jesus is going to cause people to die. You want to be His disciple; you must take up your cross and follow Him, loving God and everyone around you, and in your case dive included, there can be no exceptions.
If the entire story of Jesus is true, then logically, there is no hell.
Matthew 10:
So everyone who acknowledges me before men, I also will acknowledge before my Father who is in heaven, but whoever denies me before men, I also will deny before my Father who is in heaven.
“Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. And a person's enemies will be those of his own household. Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. And whoever does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.
23 Sep 19
@kellyjay said“Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. And a person's enemies will be those of his own household. Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. And whoever does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.
In light of this kind of stuff, do you think the Christian persecution of Jews for most of the last 2,000 years - often 'at the point of a sword' - was justified?
23 Sep 19
@fmf saidDuring the first few centuries, it was often the Jews actually persecuting Christians, as the Bible itself indicates, and as historical records indicate. Indeed, our Messiah was killed at the behest of the Jews.
[b]“Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. And a person's enemies will be those of his own household. Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and whoever loves ...[text shortened]... secution of Jews for most of the last 2,000 years - often 'at the point of a sword' - was justified?
Of course, persecution of Jews did exist in subsequent places, but this is also unrelated. There is no Biblical passage which implies that we should use violence to advance the Kingdom of God.
In fact, quite the opposite:
Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jewish leaders. But now my kingdom is from another place."
John 18:36.
23 Sep 19
@philokalia saidYou have dodged my question. KellyJay will do the same.
During the first few centuries, it was often the Jews actually persecuting Christians, as the Bible itself indicates, and as historical records indicate. Indeed, our Messiah was killed at the behest of the Jews.
Of course, persecution of Jews did exist in subsequent places, but this is also unrelated. There is no Biblical passage which implies that we should use viole ...[text shortened]... t my arrest by the Jewish leaders. But now my kingdom is from another place."[/quote]
John 18:36.
23 Sep 19
@fmf saidI answered it -- using another passage to illustrate that, in this case, the sword is proverbial.
You have dodged my question. KellyJay will do the same.
Moreover, since Christianity is a religion meant to exist beyond Judaism, it seems unlikely to me that this particular pasasge would be aimed solely at Judaism.