23 Sep 19
@philokalia saidYou mean it was used proverbially in "another passage"?
I answered it -- using another passage to illustrate that, in this case, the sword is proverbial.
23 Sep 19
1 edit
@chaney3 saidIt is your prerogative to answer your own question as you choose and you can declare your answer "reasonable" too.
FMF, you have ditched Jesus and your faith. What is your purpose here?
Trolling is the only reasonable answer.
Another answer to your question is: my purpose is to engage in 'debate and general discussion of the supernatural, religion, and the afterlife.'
@fmf saidYou are debating from a flawed perspective.
It is your prerogative to answer your own question as you choose and you can declare your answer "reasonable" too.
Another answer to your question is: my purpose is to engage in 'debate and general discussion of the supernatural, religion, and the afterlife.'
23 Sep 19
@fmf saidThe John 18:36 passage shows that Christ does not intend for His Kingdom & religion to be a secular power in the least.
You mean it was used proverbially in "another passage"?
The idea, then, that he would have encouraged Christians to take up the sword against Jews (oh lawdy) in another passage is absurd.
It is further shown to be absurd by Christ's actions on Earth.
23 Sep 19
@philokalia saidThis is not necessarily so if the stir that Jesus caused, and the reason he was executed, was ~ in fact ~ because he seemed to many to be the kind of Messiah that the Jews had been waiting for, but then decades later he - or some composite figure presented as "Jesus" - was portrayed in a brand new breakaway religion as a pacifist in the interests of Roman political objectives regarding dealing with the rebellious and bellicose Jews.
The John 18:36 passage shows that Christ does not intend for His Kingdom & religion to be a secular power in the least.
The idea, then, that he would have encouraged Christians to take up the sword against Jews (oh lawdy) in another passage is absurd.
It is further shown to be absurd by Christ's actions on Earth.
23 Sep 19
@fmf saidWe have zero proof and little reason to believe that.
This is not necessarily so if the stir that Jesus caused, and the reason he was executed, was ~ in fact ~ because he seemed to many to be the kind of Messiah that the Jews had been waiting for, but then decades later he - or some composite figure presented as "Jesus" - was portrayed in a brand new breakaway religion as a pacifist in the interests of Roman political objectives regarding dealing with the rebellious and bellicose Jews.
This is literally a historical conspiracy theory that can't be proven. And, because it's a conspiracy theory, it can't be disproven either.
23 Sep 19
@philokalia saidYou can look into it if you want. It's interesting. Or you can just settle for what you have already been told believe by the Greek Orthodox Church about the history of the period. It's ironic to hear people who believe Jesus was divine talking about there being "zero proof".
We have zero proof and little reason to believe that.
This is literally a historical conspiracy theory that can't be proven. And, because it's a conspiracy theory, it can't be disproven either.
23 Sep 19
@philokalia saidI am not a Christian. I am however interested in how your religion's literature might fit into the history of that era and how the history of that era might have given rise to your religion. If you want to engage only with people who believe the same things as you, you should just talk to Christians about what Christians believe.
Would you concede the point that if Christianity exists as the record shows and the way that Christians believe it to exist, it would be wrong to interpret the passage the way that you suggested?
23 Sep 19
This is a debate forum, FMF. If you want your conspiracy theory to be believed sans evidence, I recommend you go speak among other conspiracy theorists.
Of course, there is not definitive proof of Christ's divinity, but i believe the church accurately preserved the Gospel and I believe in the Resurrection, the miracles of Christ, and the many miracles of His Saints as proof.
^^
23 Sep 19
@philokalia saidI don't mind if you don't believe the perspective I have shared. Look into the history of the era on your own bat if your interest is genuine.
This is a debate forum, FMF. If you want your conspiracy theory to be believed sans evidence, I recommend you go speak among other conspiracy theorists.
23 Sep 19
@philokalia saidThanks for your advice.
I recommend you go speak among other conspiracy theorists.
23 Sep 19
1 edit
@philokalia saidPresumably, you do realize that you making assertions of this sort - and about the "proof" you feel you have - doesn't create any kind of onus on anyone else in terms of what they believe or don't believe and what "proof" they have, right?
i believe the church accurately preserved the Gospel and I believe in the Resurrection, the miracles of Christ, and the many miracles of His Saints as proof.