@chaney3 saidAnd yet you have been drunkenly stalking at least one Christian here from thread to thread, and even starting an interminable succession of threads dedicated to it, in order to dish out torrents of raw personal abuse, replete with countless deleted posts, for at least the last 2-3 years, for rejecting the theology of torment in burning flames for eternity. And it now turns out you reject it too?
Nobody goes to hell.
Nobody.
@fmf saidTroll.
And yet you have been drunkenly stalking at least one Christian here from thread to thread, and even starting an interminable succession of threads dedicated to it, in order to dish out torrents of raw personal abuse, replete with countless deleted posts, for at least the last 2-3 years, for rejecting the theology of torment in burning flames for eternity. And it now turns out you reject it too?
@fmf saidSo you do believe that morality does exist, right?
I don't have to come up with some sort of hypothetical, convoluted, magical atrocity that trumps the convoluted magical atrocity supposedly meted out by the God figure that appeals to your imagination.
There is no onus on me to pretend to be superstitious - in the way you are - in order to help you establish the credibility of your circular-logic-driven assertions.
All yo ...[text shortened]... by my lack of belief: Look FMF, "...you are going to be burned because you are going to be burned."
What is something that is morally coherent?
This isn't irrelevant at all.
@philokalia saidWe have had at least three 20+ page discussions on this exact matter, on three or more different threads, over the last year or so. I consider this, right now, to be the latest in a series of red herrings that have been punctuating your 'It is because it is' "argument". Hold your head up high regarding the moral case you have made if you think you can.
So you do believe that morality does exist, right?
@philokalia saidYou seem to have given up even trying to establish a moral purpose or justification for inflicting the most agonizing pain possible ~ for eternity ~ on a human being for lacking your religious beliefs.
Or does morality not exist, and thus a morally coherent thing does not exist..?
You also seem to have given up even trying to explain what the moral purpose would be of STILL inclicting that kind of incomparable physical agony and suffering in 20,000,000 or 20,000,000,000 years from now.
You seem so obviously to have given up; I consider this a success in this discussion.
As for you, and whether you have justified your belief successfully to one who does not share that belief, as I have said, just hold your head up high if you think you have made a case.
I had actually felt that the reasons that I was giving back when this page was in the late 20s and early 30s were valid and went unanswered. I also felt that they were adequately explained and not appeals to authority.
I consider this new line of discussion just a polite change of direction in this thread.
I do not wish it to be embarrassing or personally hurtful for anyone. It's a valid question.
@philokalia saidAnd I completely disagree, for the reasons I have given.
I had actually felt that the reasons that I was giving back when this page was in the late 20s and early 30s were valid and went unanswered. I also felt that they were adequately explained and not appeals to authority.
@philokalia saidAnd my stance on the source, nature and application of morality, and what happens when people disagree about moral questions, has not changed since we discussed it on those previous three or more occasions.
I consider this new line of discussion just a polite change of direction in this thread.
If I did not believe in morality, I would say that moral incoherence was still possible in the sense that content contradicts itself and thus becomes incoherent, so it succeeds in being at least incoherent while it might not necessarily be moral, as no moral character exists.
However, that is not the case with the Bible...
Those who do not want to be with God are sent to the outer darkness, where the worm never ceases, and where the fire is never quenched, and this is the symbolism used to describe eternity away from God.
It is hell, and hell is real, and it is a torment and a punishment that does last forever.
It should be said, though, that just as we do not fully understand how to conceptualize and completely to understand heaven, the same can be said of hell.
@philokalia saidIt's no wonder, then, that a religionist mind like yours would single out a poster like KellyJay as a "great thinker" and "great writer".
I also felt that they were adequately explained and not appeals to authority.
@philokalia said'Hell is hell', 'It's real because it's real', 'people are tormented because they are tormented', 'It lasts forever because it lasts forever', and all this is because 'It is because it is'. Got it.
It is hell, and hell is real, and it is a torment and a punishment that does last forever.