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Divegeester, Christ said "I will tell you Who you should fear ..."
So you correct Jesus Christ there? Is He mistaken with wrong information about God there? You know His Father better there then He?
Will you try to save your opposition to Christ with an excuse that elsewhere we are exhorted to love God?
How will you eliminate Luke 12:5 from the oracles of God ???
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Your literal interpretation of Revelation means that Your version of God want you to KNOW that he will burn you alive for eternity if you don’t love him back.
Lovey person.
Why does Revelation 20 at the last judgment say "I saw the DEAD ..." standing before the great white throne to be judged?
Why didn't it say "I saw them ALIVE ..." ?
Is it mandatory that a Christian LIKE everything he reads in the Bible or BELIEVE what he reads in the Bible?
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25 Sep 19
"And I saw the DEAD, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and scrolls were opened; and another scroll was opened, which is the book of life. And the DEAD were judged by the things which were written in the scrolls, according to their works." (Rev. 20:12)
Why didn't John say he saw the LIVING standing there and that the LIVING were judged ?
Those thrown into the lake of fire in verse 15 are what, living or DEAD ?
25 Sep 19
@sonship saidIf a man comes to Jesus is key, his motivation I think is meaningless. Saying a prayer just to avoid hell can be done with nothing more to do with the Lord than including Jesus name in his prayer.You can mouth the words, and they can be meaningless to you in your life as well as to God. You can say a prayer of salvation, but if it isn't a reality, it is just attempting to get out of hell free card so you can then go on with your sinful life, it isn't going to help you.
But if a man comes to Jesus Christ only to get out of hell free, God will acce ...[text shortened]... tell them temporarily to go away from Him because He did not acknowledge their ways of serving God.
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25 Sep 19
2 edits
@sonship saidTell me and the world that, it is because it is, is the lamest argument. In fact it is NOT and argument at all. It is just more some jazz-handed waffle that you have so far filled this thread up with.
@divegeester
Which version of God should I take, your's or who Jesus taught ?
The OP is there, prove to me that your literal interpretation of Revelation doesn’t mean that Jesus burns people in hell for eternity.
Can you even face the question one wonders!
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25 Sep 19
@sonship saidSee my post above.
Divegeester, Christ said "I will tell you Who you should fear ..."
So you correct Jesus Christ there? Is He mistaken with wrong information about God there? You know His Father better there then He?
Will you try to save your opposition to Christ with an excuse that elsewhere we are exhorted to love God?
How will you eliminate Luke 12:5 from the oracles of God ???
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25 Sep 19
@sonship saidSo the reason the Lamb is in the presence of the eternal torment 'IS' connected to God wanting the lost to 'know they are lost.' A kind of divine, rubbing their noses in it?
The lake of fire means you lose.
It means God wants you to KNOW that you lose.
It means God wants you to know that you lose forever.
Unbelieving man does not want to lose.
He wants to not believe and win against God.
Unbelieving man does not want to know that he is losing.
Unbelieving man wants to be non-existent so that he will not suffer the misery ...[text shortened]... to be saved in Christ for eternal bliss rather than condemned in eternal misery, everlasting losing.
I can understand the character flaw of spite in a human being, but why on earth would you want to attribute such a thing to your God?
@sonship saidAnd what is the moral purpose of STILL doing this to someone - for their lack of belief while they were alive - say, 200,000,000,000 years later?
The lake of fire means you lose.
It means God wants you to KNOW that you lose.
It means God wants you to know that you lose forever.
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25 Sep 19
1 edit
So the reason the Lamb is in the presence of the eternal torment 'IS' connected to God wanting the lost to 'know they are lost.' A kind of divine, rubbing their noses in it?
I can understand the character flaw of spite in a human being, but why on earth would you want to attribute such a thing to your God?
Look at the facts being taught.
What do they amount to?
They amount to conscious awareness that one is forever being punished.
You can say "I don't believe it." But that is what the Bible teaches.
I only face it with frankness. You can caricature it to make it worthy of Comedy Central all you want.
25 Sep 19
@sonship saidBut why is the punishment torture though? Why is that the "perfectly moral" punishment?
@Ghost-of-a-Duke
So the reason the Lamb is in the presence of the eternal torment 'IS' connected to God wanting the lost to 'know they are lost.' A kind of divine, rubbing their noses in it?
I can understand the character flaw of spite in a human being, but why on earth would you want to attribute such a thing to your God?
Look at the facts being taug ...[text shortened]... only face it with frankness. You can caricature it to make it worthy of Comedy Central all you want.
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25 Sep 19
@sonship saidThe notion is comical enough for me to assign the whole book to the dustbin.
@Ghost-of-a-Duke
So the reason the Lamb is in the presence of the eternal torment 'IS' connected to God wanting the lost to 'know they are lost.' A kind of divine, rubbing their noses in it?
I can understand the character flaw of spite in a human being, but why on earth would you want to attribute such a thing to your God?
Look at the facts being taug ...[text shortened]... only face it with frankness. You can caricature it to make it worthy of Comedy Central all you want.
Only religion can have a moral human being seeing no problem with a 'good' God tormenting people for eternity. Only religion.
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25 Sep 19
@fmf saidIt’s his version of Jesus being loving and everlastingly merciful, and yet at the time vengeful and full of wrath.
And what is the moral purpose of STILL doing this to someone - for their lack of belief while they were alive - say, 200,000,000,000 years later?
It really is such utter utter nonsense.
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25 Sep 19
@ghost-of-a-duke saidThese “hellers” will comfort themselves into whatever intellectually dishonest shape necessary in order to NOT abandon this revolting version of Jesus.
The notion is comical enough for me to assign the whole book to the dustbin.
Only religion can have a moral human being seeing no problem with a 'good' God tormenting people for eternity. Only religion.
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25 Sep 19
@ghost-of-a-duke saidThere you go hellers, that is what this doctrine does for unbelievers.
The notion is comical enough for me to assign the whole book to the dustbin.
I think it’s fair to say that this doctrine and its adherents are doing more to keep people out of a “relationship” with Jesus than anything else.