25 Sep 19
@sonship saidWhat if one spends one's life living in accordance with one's beliefs in a different version of the Abrahamic God? Why would such a person be tormented in burning flames - the most agonizing physical pain that can be inflicted on someone - and why would this physical agony be inflicted for eternity?
They amount to conscious awareness that one is forever being punished.
25 Sep 19
@divegeester saidThat is what a Satanic doctrine does. It draws people away from God
There you go hellers, that is what this doctrine does for unbelievers.
I think it’s fair to say that this doctrine and its adherents are doing more to keep people out of a “relationship” with Jesus than anything else.
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25 Sep 19
@divegeester saidIt certainly appears to be the case.
These “hellers” will comfort themselves into whatever intellectually dishonest shape necessary in order to NOT abandon this revolting version of Jesus.
25 Sep 19
@ghost-of-a-duke saidThe thing that is going to be the greatest torment in Hell, is going to be seeing Christ as He is, and know something about this life for each they put before Christ, so regrets yes!
So the reason the Lamb is in the presence of the eternal torment 'IS' connected to God wanting the lost to 'know they are lost.' A kind of divine, rubbing their noses in it?
I can understand the character flaw of spite in a human being, but why on earth would you want to attribute such a thing to your God?
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25 Sep 19
@fmf saidTough titty.
What if one spends one's life living in accordance with one's beliefs in a different version of the Abrahamic God? Why would such a person be tormented in burning flames - the most agonizing physical pain that can be inflicted on someone - and why would this physical agony be inflicted for eternity?
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25 Sep 19
4 edits
If a man comes to Jesus is key, his motivation I think is meaningless. Saying a prayer just to avoid hell can be done with nothing more to do with the Lord than including Jesus name in his prayer.
If we confess with our mouth Lord Jesus and believe in our heart that God has raised Him from the dead, God says we shall be saved.
God knows if a man confessed with his mouth and believes in his heart in the raised living Jesus.
Second Timothy 2:`19
English Standard Version
But God’s firm foundation stands, bearing this seal: “The Lord knows those who are his,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of the Lord depart from iniquity.”
1.) Who knows who are His?
Answer: The Lord
2.) What ought those who name Him do?
Answer: Depart from iniquity.
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And what is the moral purpose of STILL doing this to someone - for their lack of belief while they were alive - say, 200,000,000,000 years later?
You asked before. I referred you to "vengeance" and "the penalty of everlasting destruction".
"Rendering vengeance to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. They will pay the penalty of eternal destruction from the presence of the lord and from the glory of His strength.
When He comes to be glorified in His saints and to be marveled at in all those who have believed ..." (2 Thess. 1"9-10a)
Apparently God sees to it that in eternity in the new heaven and new earth in which only righteousness dwells, "lack of belief" in God does not exist anywhere, even in eternal perdition.
It is difficult for me to say a lot more about that because I am not called to CONDUCT the last judgment on anyone personally instead of Christ. I am only called to believe it. And I do not suppress its teaching as I tell people about Jesus.
When it came to goodness God did not consult you when He planed and designed your circulatory system, your nervous system, your reproductive system, your respiratory system, your brain, your conscience, your will, your emotion.
Eternal judgment is there in the Bible. I don't think it was inserted afterwards by very mean people. It came out of the mouth of Christ. If it is wrong then you probably should discard the whole Bible for the Bible teaches it.
You do as you think you should do.
I somehow have been led to believe the Bible and believe God's moral determination of what should happen to the justified and what should happen to the condemned.
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25 Sep 19
1 edit
@sonship saidWow!
@FMFAnd what is the moral purpose of STILL doing this to someone - for their lack of belief while they were alive - say, 200,000,000,000 years later?
It is difficult for me to say a lot more about that because I am not called to CONDUCT the last judgment on anyone personally instead of Christ. I am only called to believe it.
So there it is, you abdicate any responsibility for defending your horrendous dogma, by asserting that you are not called to do so. You are just required to believe it.
Incredible.
25 Sep 19
@sonship saidIt is Jesus not a quote that saves us. If you don’t have God’s Spirit you don’t belong to God. Not disputing we are saved by God’s grace through faith, we just need to be sure it’s God (Jesus) we are putting our faith in, not something else.
@KellyJay
If a man comes to Jesus is key, his motivation I think is meaningless. Saying a prayer just to avoid hell can be done with nothing more to do with the Lord than including Jesus name in his prayer.
If we confess with our mouth Lord Jesus and believe in our heart that God has raised Him from the dead, God says we shall be saved.
God knows i ...[text shortened]...
Answer: The Lord
2.) What ought those who name Him do?
Answer: Depart from iniquity.
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25 Sep 19
@kellyjay saidAre you and sonship arguing about how to be saved by your version of god in a thread about your version of god burning people alive?
It is Jesus not a quote that saves us. If you don’t have God’s Spirit you don’t belong to God. Not disputing we are saved by God’s grace through faith, we just need to be sure it’s God (Jesus) we are putting our faith in, not something else.
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25 Sep 19
2 edits
It is Jesus not a quote that saves us. If you don’t have God’s Spirit you don’t belong to God. Not disputing we are saved by God’s grace through faith, we just need to be sure it’s God (Jesus) we are putting our faith in, not something else.
I agree that it is the living Person of Christ who saves us.
And I believe that no one can say Jesus is Lord except in the Holy Spirit. (1 Cor. 12:3)
New American Standard Bible
Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus is accursed"; and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit.
Amen.
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25 Sep 19
@sonship saidProfound...
@KellyJay
It is Jesus not a quote that saves us. If you don’t have God’s Spirit you don’t belong to God. Not disputing we are saved by God’s grace through faith, we just need to be sure it’s God (Jesus) we are putting our faith in, not something else.
I agree that it is the living Person of Christ who saves us.
And I believe that no one can say Jes ...[text shortened]... "Jesus is accursed"; and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit. [/b]
Amen.
But actually completely irrelevant to the question I’ve been asking you since the OP.
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25 Sep 19
3 edits
So there it is, you abdicate any responsibility for defending your horrendous dogma, by asserting that you are not called to do so. You are just required to believe it.
Incredible.
Not impressed Divegeester.
Now since you are so very good and smart tell me HOW you are going to stop God from sending those whose names are not recorded in the book of life to the lake of fire.
Do you plan to shame His believers to some tipping point that maybe God will relent?
Or maybe you are waiting for a time machine to take you back to the days before He was crucified and persuade Christ not to teach such things.
Maybe you plan to get God to change His nature which calls for Him to inflict eternal punishment on the devil and his angels and those sent to join him.
Are you going to wait until a higher authority evolves to adjust God in His mistakes?
How do you plan to get God to do what you want - to condemn no one to eternal punishment?
Will you launch a protest vote to rather JOIN the eternally lost as an alternative to be forever in a evil God's eternal kingdom?