26 Sep 19
@kellyjay saidHow does this peculiar begging-the-question-type question relate to any moral justification for using neverending torture as a punishment for one normal man's lack of belief?
You think any one normal man's life is of more value than the whole human race?
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26 Sep 19
@sonship saidWhat question is this now!?
@divegeester
Understandable, considering I just called you out using your own words.
After you pat yourself on the back nice and hearty, could you for once answer my question?
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26 Sep 19
1 edit
@sonship saidWhy do you keep asking me these questions as though the answer somehow, in any way at all detracts from this:
@divegeester
When the last judgment occurs who is it standing before God to be judged - the living or the dead?
Revelation 20:12.
According to your literal interpretation of Revelation Jesus will be in Hell overseeing the burning alive of non Christians.
Prove me wrong.
Over a thousand posts in now sonship...
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26 Sep 19
@fmf saidIt’s a read it and weep ideology.
Well, well. No wonder you can't make a morally coherent case for the spiteful and demented ideology you are "only called to believe". You are only following what you just so happen to believe are your 'orders' from a magical being.
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26 Sep 19
@kellyjay saidOut of your own mouth!!
Now think about Jesus, He took every sin, by every person, from the beginning to the end of time upon Himself and God punished Him for them all.
If eternity in Hell for the individual is just payment for sins, then what had to happen to Jesus on our behalf? The Father crushed Christ so severely, it paid the debt for all our sins. Our sins would cause us to spend eternity ...[text shortened]... He paid the debt He did not owe, but Jesus Christ took it all for us, we could not do it ourselves.
Read your own post again KellyJay.
Wonderful.
“He took EVERY sin from the beginning of time...”
“...it paid the debt for all our sins.”
“...what Jesus took on the WHOLE human race....
“He PAID the debt...”
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26 Sep 19
2 edits
If the debt for all of the sins from the entire human race since the beginning of time was paid at Calvary, then what is hell for?
What is the POINT of burning people alive for a debt they no longer owe? Where is the justice in that?
Your literal interpretation of Revelation states that Jesus will STILL be in Hell overseeing the eternal burning alive of non Christians.
Why!?
26 Sep 19
1 edit
@divegeester saidIf the debt for all of the sins from the entire human race since the beginning of time was paid at Calvary, then why deny anyone eternal life and entrance into the Kingdom?
If the debt for all of the sins from the entire human race since the beginning of time was paid at Calvary, then what is hell for?
What is the POINT of burning people alive for a debt they no longer owe? Where is the justice in that?
Your literal interpretation of Revelation states that Jesus will STILL be in Hell overseeing the eternal burning alive of non Christians.
Why!?
What is the POINT of denying people eternal life and entrance into the Kingdom for a debt they no longer owe? Where is the justice in that?
26 Sep 19
@thinkofone saidAll are able to come to the Lord for forgiveness of our sins no matter how bad we have been. The goal was never to forgive just so we could continue to live our lives apart from God serving our sinful nature, but we are to come in repentance seeking God’s forgiveness and giving our lives to Him. As He has given Himself to us, so we can receive God unto our lives. Redemption allows this while the unrepentant heart or those who reject what God has offered don’t receive what they do not want.
If the debt for all of the sins from the entire human race since the beginning of time was paid at Calvary, then why deny anyone eternal life and entrance into the Kingdom?
What is the POINT of denying people eternal life and entrance into the Kingdom for a debt they no longer owe? Where is the justice in that?
26 Sep 19
@kellyjay saidAs I pointed out earlier in response to a post of yours:
All are able to come to the Lord for forgiveness of our sins no matter how bad we have been. The goal was never to forgive just so we could continue to live our lives apart from God serving our sinful nature, but we are to come in repentance seeking God’s forgiveness and giving our lives to Him. As He has given Himself to us, so we can receive God unto our lives. Redemption ...[text shortened]... the unrepentant heart or those who reject what God has offered don’t receive what they do not want.
If our sins are so so bad to God that an eternity in Hell is a just recompense, how bad are they? Now think about Jesus, He took every sin, by every person, from the beginning to the end of time upon Himself and God punished Him for them all.
But wait there's more. You believe that Jesus IS God. Therefore by your line of thought "our sins are so so bad to God" that God punished God to "[pay] the debt". It's nonsensical. But people are so pleased by the prospect of getting a "free gift" that it renders them blind to the truth.
Salvation by our works to get good enough is such an insult to Jesus Christ when He offered Himself to us as a gift.
What's an "insult to Jesus Christ" is that people believe such nonsense instead of believing in and living the gospel preached by Jesus while He walked the Earth.
No matter how you try to frame it, the truth is that what you've been posting is utterly nonsensical. The concept of "substitutionary atonement" and all that comes with it is utterly nonsensical - including what you've written in the two posts of yours to which I replied.
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26 Sep 19
1 edit
If the debt for all of the sins from the entire human race since the beginning of time was paid at Calvary, then why deny anyone eternal life and entrance into the Kingdom?
What is the POINT of denying people eternal life and entrance into the Kingdom for a debt they no longer owe? Where is the justice in that?
Substitution takes place when the sinner believes in Christ.
It is like a blank check in which any amount of money may be written in.
The benefit is to those who believe.
The availability of the funds are there for all mankind for throughout all history.
But I don't think you will find the word "substitution" per se in the New Testament.
That is how the facts line up.
But you read that and did not believe "Whosoever believes ..." (John 3:16) .
You read it but you have been trained not to see it or believe it.
26 Sep 19
@sonship saidTry reading my earlier post in context of what DG wrote which was written in context of what KJ wrote.
@ThinkOfOne
If the debt for all of the sins from the entire human race since the beginning of time was paid at Calvary, then why deny anyone eternal life and entrance into the Kingdom?
What is the POINT of denying people eternal life and entrance into the Kingdom for a debt they no longer owe? Where is the justice in that?
Substitution takes place when the sinner believes in Christ.
After you've done all that, maybe you'll be able to understand my post.
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26 Sep 19
Try reading my earlier post in context of what DG wrote which was written in context of what KJ wrote.
After you've done all that, maybe you'll be able to understand my post.
It may come as a surprise to you. But I do not think I need to do that.
I have a very good idea of where you are coming from.
All I expect is variations on a theme. Not much more.
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26 Sep 19
@thinkofone saidExactly.
If the debt for all of the sins from the entire human race since the beginning of time was paid at Calvary, then why deny anyone eternal life and entrance into the Kingdom?
What is the POINT of denying people eternal life and entrance into the Kingdom for a debt they no longer owe? Where is the justice in that?
26 Sep 19
1 edit
@sonship saidSo sonship are you going to ignore the fact that Revelation says that the DEAD ARE RAISED ?
@divegeester
How does this html ridden blurt “prove me wrong” in the slightest?
Who is it that is going to be punished with going to a lake of fire Dive?
"And I saw the dead, ... standing before the throne ..." (v.12)
"And if anyone was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire." (v.15)
The livin ...[text shortened]... Or the dead go there?
"The god who burns people alive for eternity" is your Thread title.
Do the resurrected dead remain dead?
26 Sep 19
1 edit
@sonship saidWrong. You promote mouth worship so you will naturally gravitate to a doctrine of belief with the mouth. Jesus and all the Apostles preached belief with the heart. Professions of faith do not give any blank check. Belief with the heart leads to obedience to Christ, and it is obedience that eventually leads to eternal life.
@ThinkOfOne
If the debt for all of the sins from the entire human race since the beginning of time was paid at Calvary, then why deny anyone eternal life and entrance into the Kingdom?
What is the POINT of denying people eternal life and entrance into the Kingdom for a debt they no longer owe? Where is the justice in that?
Substitution takes place wh ...[text shortened]... elieves ..." (John 3:16) [/b].
You read it but you have been trained not to see it or believe it.
Jesus therefore died and was raised, paying for the sins of the world, so that all who OBEY HIM, gets eternal life. Your substitutionary nonsense was not preached by Christ.