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God IS love, God is compassionate, God loves his creation God is omnipotent, God is merciful forever, God is merciful everlastingly, God is never changing. God will not burn people alive.
Back to the challenge you ran away from.
Show us that in the Bible physical death means non-existence.
Those eternally lost exist. They are not alive.
If we do not know YET what it would mean to be not alive but exist, that doesn't mean with God it cannot be.
" And I will show you whom you should fear: fear Him who, after killing has authority to cast into Gehenna;
Yes, I tell you, fear this One." (Luke 12:5)
Did you see that? "... AFTER KILLING"
25 Sep 19
@chaney3 saidJohn 3:18
ALL are saved.
ALL.
Believers, and non believers.
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
Matthew 7:21
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
No one without the Son is saved, and not everyone who calls Jesus Lord will be either. What you just said is about as wrong as it can possibly be.
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25 Sep 19
1 edit
Matthew 7:21
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
No one without the Son is saved, and not everyone who calls Jesus Lord will be either. What you just said is about as wrong as it can possibly be.
So then "For, whoever calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved" (Romans 10:13) is not true then ?
Matthew 7:21 cannot make Romans 10:13 a LIE.
And neither can Romans 10:13 make Matthew 7:21 a LIE.
God has told us both.
Do you believe that both are true or that only one is true and the other is a mistake?
25 Sep 19
@sonship saidYou can mouth the words, and they can be meaningless to you in your life as well as to God. You can say a prayer of salvation, but if it isn't a reality, it is just attempting to get out of hell free card so you can then go on with your sinful life, it isn't going to help you. Trusting in that prayer is not believing in Jesus Christ, one is trusting in the act the other the Lord. If you call on God is different, you can spend your life going to church doing church things and never get right with God, because that is works, not Jesus in your life.
@KellyJay
Matthew 7:21
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
No one without the Son is saved, and not everyone who calls Jesus Lord will be either. What you just said is about as wrong as it can possibly be.
So then [b]"For, whoever calls upon the n ...[text shortened]... ld us both.
Do you believe that both are true or that only one is true and the other is a mistake?
When Jesus tells some that were proclaiming all of their works before Him on judgment day these were not little works, but it was one main thing that got them cast out that they lacked, "Depart from me I never knew you."
Matthew 7:22-24 English Standard Version (ESV)
On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
“Everyone then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock.
Jesus saves us, but we are to overcome! Our life isn't going to be an easy one, picking up our crosses and following Him is because He is our redeemer. Jesus was very clear with us, we are forgiven, and we better forgive others or what?
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25 Sep 19
@sonship saidI don’t believe this so why should I a) run away from your question and b) try to show you it in scripture?
@divegeester
Back to the challenge you ran away from.
Show us that in the Bible physical death means non-existence.
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25 Sep 19
@sonship saidHere was you asked me:
@divegeesterAre you asking me this silly childlike question because you can’t think of how to reply to my actual post?
Are you evading the question because "lake of fire" is so vague it just might mean something like a pub happy hour instead?
[quote]@sonship said
@divegeester
Can you think of anything good about a lake of fire that one should not be concerned about being thrown into it?
Are you asking me this silly childlike question because you can’t think of how to reply to my actual post?[quote]
I’m not evading your silly question I’m pointing out to you that you are asking it because you cannot give a reply to the post you were responding to. It’s your typical jazz-handed obfuscation again. Go back at look at my post you were replying to...
I don’t believe in a literal lake of fire, try to comprehend that when constructing your next deflection.
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25 Sep 19
@kellyjay saidAnd you don’t challenge philokalia who claims that chaney3’s posts in this thread are interesting and valuable...
John 3:18
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
Matthew 7:21
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
No one without the Son is saved, and not everyone who calls Jesus Lord will be either. What you just said is about as wrong as it can possibly be.
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25 Sep 19
@kellyjay saidYour version of Jesus burns people alive for eternity.
You can mouth the words, and they can be meaningless to you in your life as well as to God. You can say a prayer of salvation, but if it isn't a reality, it is just attempting to get out of hell free card so you can then go on with your sinful life, it isn't going to help you. Trusting in that prayer is not believing in Jesus Christ, one is trusting in the act the other the ...[text shortened]... s our redeemer. Jesus was very clear with us, we are forgiven, and we better forgive others or what?
All this other stuff you are posting I s just deflection from your literal interpretation of Revelation
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25 Sep 19
3 edits
You can mouth the words, and they can be meaningless to you in your life as well as to God. You can say a prayer of salvation, but if it isn't a reality, it is just attempting to get out of hell free card so you can then go on with your sinful life, it isn't going to help you.
But if a man comes to Jesus Christ only to get out of hell free, God will accept that person.
Why you came to Jesus is a secondary matter to the fact that you CAME to Jesus.
The level of your consecration is second to you coming to Jesus.
When in Romans 10:13 Paul writes "For, whoever calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved" the context beginning with verse 9 should mean he has in mind -
"confess with your mouth and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead." (v.9)
I think Paul has in mind confession (calling) and believing in the heart when he shortens his assurance saying "whoever calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."
What you speak of is consecration.
While it is ideal that consecration be made at the same time as salvation is received, God is willing to receive anyone who calls on the Lord, confesses the Lord Jesus and believes in the heart that God has raised Him from the dead.
If people get saved only because they do not want to go to hell, God accepts that.
"For with the heart there is believing unto righteousness, and with the mouth there is confession unto salvation. For the Scripture says, 'Everyone who believes on Him shall not be put to shame.' " (vs.10,11)
(we can come back to that latter) It must mean eternal shame. Paul said he was ashamed of some incident. He exhorted some Christians that something was a shame to them. So we should take this as eternal shame.
"Everyone who believes on Him shall not be put to shame." - (for eternity). That still gives Christ freedom to discipline His children or deprive them from a reward, or to even tell them temporarily to go away from Him because He did not acknowledge their ways of serving God.
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25 Sep 19
2 edits
I’m not evading your silly question I’m pointing out to you that you are asking it because you cannot give a reply to the post you were responding to. It’s your typical jazz-handed obfuscation again. Go back at look at my post you were replying to...
I don’t believe in a literal lake of fire, try to comprehend that when constructing your next deflection.
And herein is my POINT Divegeester.
Does the word picture of a lake of fire mean anything positive one should derive by being in it ?
You say " I do not believe in a literal lake of fire ".
If you believe then in an allegorical lake of fire what does it do for the sense of dread of having to GO THERE? And that for eternity.
Nothing, I say. It is meant to be horrendous however you view it.
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The lake of fire means you lose.
It means God wants you to KNOW that you lose.
It means God wants you to know that you lose forever.
Unbelieving man does not want to lose.
He wants to not believe and win against God.
Unbelieving man does not want to know that he is losing.
Unbelieving man wants to be non-existent so that he will not suffer the misery of losing.
So we need to be saved in Christ for eternal bliss rather than condemned in eternal misery, everlasting losing.
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25 Sep 19
@sonship saidYou say “here is your point” as though you have arrived at this tangential post of irrelevance on purpose.
@divegeester
[quote] I’m not evading your silly question I’m pointing out to you that you are asking it because you cannot give a reply to the post you were responding to. It’s your typical jazz-handed obfuscation again. Go back at look at my post you were replying to...
I don’t believe in a literal lake of fire, try to comprehend that when constructing your next deflecti ...[text shortened]... O THERE? And that for eternity.
Nothing, I say. It is meant to be horrendous however you view it.
I have no idea what it is you are going on about, but I do recognise this reflective tactic of you trying to pick-the-corn-out-of-the-mud because you’ve been unable to answer a prior post.
Mine is still there a couple of pages back if you want to address it.
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25 Sep 19
@sonship saidYour literal interpretation of Revelation means that Your version of God want you to KNOW that he will burn you alive for eternity if you don’t love him back.
The lake of fire means you lose.
It means God wants you to KNOW that you lose.
It means God wants you to know that you lose forever.
Lovey person.
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Your literal interpretation of Revelation means that Your version of God want you to KNOW that he will burn you alive for eternity if you don’t love him back.
Lovey person.
No Divegeester, I see in John 3:16 EVERYONE WHO BELIEVES. I did not see the requirement of loving the Son of God mentioned as a primary condition of salvation.
Now Jesus told us who it is that we should fear and why.
You come and say that that God is evil and not God.
Instead that God of Jesus to be hated and those who listen to Jesus on that teaching are to be despised as horrible people.
Instead you come to correct Jesus. Your version of God is never to be feared because God and the fear of God are completely incompatible concepts. By definition, to you, your God cannot have anything to do with causing is fear.
Which version of God should I take, your's or who Jesus taught ?