The Gospel Messages - Jesus, Paul and the Church

@kellyjay said
When I share Biblical truths, I use the Bible; I don't pull a phrase out of thin air claim it is there without giving specific verses. The verses you typically use do talk about works of righteousness, and no one disputes that they are going to be found in the righteous; no one disputes we are told to do them; none of that is in dispute. Your claims that according to the Gos ...[text shortened]... right with God, only through the grace of God is that even possible and even then it is just barely.

Thats your church gospel.
Nobody cares about that.
Jesus preached nothing you say.
The wise man follows Christ
The fool follows the church
You are a fool with your head up your a$$$

@rajk999 said
Thats your church gospel.
Nobody cares about that.
Jesus preached nothing you say.
The wise man follows Christ
The fool follows the church
You are a fool with your head up your a$$$

No one can argue with your opinion since it isn't based on anything you can see and confirm; it is all between your ears. Your insults are not arguing for anything. Speaking about things you have no idea what you are talking about as if you do, only shows your lack of knowledge doesn't stop you from showing everyone what you don't know by speaking about things as if you do.

Romans 4:1-3
English Standard Version
What then shall we say was gained by Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh? For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.”

Romans 9
What shall we say, then? That Gentiles who did not pursue righteousness have attained it, that is, a righteousness that is by faith; but that Israel who pursued a law that would lead to righteousness did not succeed in reaching that law. Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as if it were based on works. They have stumbled over the stumbling stone, as it is written,

“Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense;
and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.”

Galatians 2:15-17
English Standard Version
We ourselves are Jews by birth and not Gentile sinners; yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.

But if, in our endeavor to be justified in Christ, we too were found to be sinners, is Christ then a servant of sin? Certainly not!

Ephesians 2:8-10
English Standard Version
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

Again, I've not passed off here any church doctrine no matter how many times you spew that out. These are scriptures; they are not in conflict with anything Jesus said and did, where you are failing and quite spectacularly is you don't see this; instead, you claim there is some doctrine only you see, and these scriptures are totally against salvation by works. You have been asked to show where Jesus says, work your way into God's favor you cannot because no scripture says that. What is there is that we are told to do God's works; we are told to put our faith in God, not trust our fresh.

When Jesus is asked point-blank about what works are we to do, what does Jesus say, a direct quote, not some obscure passage I'm the only one who knows about like you push.

John 6:28-30
English Standard Version
Then they said to him, “What must we do, to be doing the works of God?” Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.” So they said to him, “Then what sign do you do, that we may see and believe you? What work do you perform?

Your opinion is meaningless, as are your insults; if we are to go by Jesus' words, we should quote them in context, saying the things we have been asserting. You cannot do that; you can only give vague references without specifics because no scriptures directly back up your work theology.

@kellyjay said
No one can argue with your opinion since it isn't based on anything you can see and confirm; it is all between your ears. Your insults are not arguing for anything. Speaking about things you have no idea what you are talking about as if you do, only shows your lack of knowledge doesn't stop you from showing everyone what you don't know by speaking about things as if you do. ...[text shortened]... y give vague references without specifics because no scriptures directly back up your work theology.

It is not my opinion that all your quotes are not from the Gospel of Christ
THAT IS A FACT.
Your doctrine is not supported by Jesus Christ.
THAT IS ANOTHER FACT.

So here is yet another summary of your false church gospel
- you are saved by grace
- justified by the blood of Christ
- righteousness does not save anyone
- eternal life is a free gift
NONE OF WHICH JESUS PREACHED

If you do come across any references from the Gospel of Christ, that supports your church gospel, please post them, Thank you. 😀

@rajk999 said
It is not my opinion that all your quotes are not from the Gospel of Christ
THAT IS A FACT.
Your doctrine is not supported by Jesus Christ.
THAT IS ANOTHER FACT.

[b] So here is yet another summary of your false church gospel
- you are saved by grace
- justified by the blood of Christ
- righteousness does not save anyone
- eternal life is a free gift
NONE OF ...[text shortened]... ences from the Gospel of Christ, that supports your church gospel, please post them, Thank you. 😀

If it is more than just your opinion, quote the scripture that provides textual support to what you allege? You cannot, which is why you simply again share with everyone what you believe without being able to show we must work our way into God's favor.

Typing in Caps doesn't move the needle either, any more than your unsupported bullet points earlier. This is not a debate on opinions; it is one that either can be shown true with scripture or it cannot, and you cannot.

@kellyjay said
If it is more than just your opinion, quote the scripture that provides textual support to what you allege? You cannot, which is why you simply again share with everyone what you believe without being able to show we must work our way into God's favor.

Typing in Caps doesn't move the needle either, any more than your unsupported bullet points earlier. This is not a debate on opinions; it is one that either can be shown true with scripture or it cannot, and you cannot.

I see your buddy Dumber has abandoned you. I guess he cannot find any supporting references from the Gospel of Christ either to support your church gospel. Hilarious 😀

@rajk999 said
You are a liar and you have been posting lies over and over here for the last 8 years at least. So YES ... when confronted with persistent lies and chronic liars like you and sonship [Dumb and Dumber] I will post in what you call a hateful way. Both of you have done the very same to me. I hate lies just like God hates lies. You want the reference for that.

Whether or not ...[text shortened]... ain lying and you are deceitful, and you are misleading people by knowingly posting false doctrines.

One characteristic of a "message" is personal testimony.

This is what you miss. We don't see a practical application of your talking. All we see is talk from you, we never see your example of doing. This diminishes your message. Your entire message is doing, not talking, yet all we see from you is talking, not doing. We see no examples of this doing that you profess is all-important. Your message would be far, far more valuable to see how one should apply this to their own lives, but on this, you are silent. In fact, you outright refuse to show how important your own message is to you. It renders all you say as mere mouth worship, which you constantly say is what convicts most Christians. The hypocrisy is palpable every time you talk about it and demand that this is the only way, yet you cannot show exactly how you live what you preach.

One has to wonder why this is. This makes your message smack of do as I say, not as I do. This saps the importance of your message. People would tend to think, "Well, it must not be that crucial, if even he can't do as he says."

@suzianne said
One characteristic of a "message" is personal testimony.

This is what you miss. We don't see a practical application of your talking. All we see is talk from you, we never see your example of doing. This diminishes your message. Your entire message is doing, not talking, yet all we see from you is talking, not doing. We see no examples of ...[text shortened]... e. People would tend to think, "Well, it must not be that crucial, if even he can't do as he says."

Well that post is full of nonsense.. .. lets see
- I have NO MESSAGE for anyone.
- I have no personal testimony for anyone.
I post the what the teachings of Christ are becuase Christians appear to have cast them aside.

And this is the surprising part ... I have repeatedly said that I do not post my personal business on the internet, and with good reason. It appears that you are a very public person, you probably have a facebook page, an instagrom page, and twitter etc etc posting your personal information for the world to see. And that fine if that is what you like. And when you get into difficulty with people ridiculing you, you are ok with that, as happened recently. But everyone is not like that. Im a private person and I dont want people like you knowing my business.

If you need a personal testimony to understand the teachings of Christ then go look elsewhere... there is sonship and KJ and others, ask them about their lives, and what they do. You childish need to hear what is going on in the lives of others is your problem... so keep it to yourself

I will continue to post the teachings of Christ and if you do not appreciate it and it bothers you then please do not read my posts. Hows that.

@rajk999 said
Well that post is full of nonsense.. .. lets see
- I have NO MESSAGE for anyone.
- I have no personal testimony for anyone.
I post the what the teachings of Christ are becuase Christians appear to have cast them aside.

And this is the surprising part ... I have repeatedly said that I do not post my personal business on the internet, and with good reason. It appears t ...[text shortened]... ist and if you do not appreciate it and it bothers you then please do not read my posts. Hows that.

You continue to talk about people personally with no information as if you know anything about their real lives, so what does that say about you? For a private person who doesn't want to share your information, you smear others all of the time personally without information on their lives.

Do you ever examine your own life as you do others?

@kellyjay said
You continue to talk about people personally with no information as if you know anything about their real lives, so what does that say about you? For a private person who doesn't want to share your information, you smear others all of the time personally without information on their lives.

Do you ever examine your own life as you do others?

Well lets hear some examples. So far I called your 'gospel' a church gospel because that is the gospel preached by many churches. It is not the gospel preached in the bible by Christ or the Apostles.

So what other personal smearing have I done? Lets seee if its justified or not.

What I do in my live is my business. I dont ask you about yours.

@rajk999 said
Well lets hear some examples. So far I called your 'gospel' a church gospel because that is the gospel preached by many churches. It is not the gospel preached in the bible by Christ or the Apostles.

So what other personal smearing have I done? Lets seee if its justified or not.

What I do in my live is my business. I dont ask you about yours.

Go back and read the things you said; I think your memory about the things you have said about me and what I have said is as bad as your ability to quote scripture to support your view on the gospel of Jesus. I have repeatedly said that it isn't our opinions; the scripture matters, our opinions can be flawed. What you say about me or anyone else is between you and Jesus, who died for them.

@kellyjay said
Go back and read the things you said; I think your memory about the things you have said about me and what I have said is as bad as your ability to quote scripture to support your view on the gospel of Jesus. I have repeatedly said that it isn't our opinions; the scripture matters, our opinions can be flawed. What you say about me or anyone else is between you and Jesus, who died for them.

Stupid, Liar, Fool, Deceitful. .. they all apply.

If you a Christian who discussed these same matters here for many years, and you are telling me you do not know what is the Gospel Jesus preached, when I told you it is written in the first 7 chapter of Matthew, particularly the Sermon on the Mount, then all those names are well applicable.

@rajk999 said
Stupid, Liar, Fool, Deceitful. .. they all apply.

If you a Christian who discussed these same matters here for many years, and you are telling me you do not know what is the Gospel Jesus preached, when I told you it is written in the first 7 chapter of Matthew, particularly the Sermon on the Mount, then all those names are well applicable.

As I said, it isn't me that matters; the scripture does. It is not just who is speaking; it is also who sent the one speaking. The Gospel isn't limited to Jesus's words only when He was one of us before He died and rose again. The Father sent Him, and Jesus sends the Holy Spirit and His followers to spread the Gospel. You reject Jesus; you reject the One who sent Him; you reject one whom Jesus sends you reject Jesus. You have repeatedly tried to diminish the Gospel of attempting to put a wedge between what Jesus said and others whom He called as they did what they were sent to do; you are attacking the One who sent them.

When Jesus called Saul on the road to Damascus, He gave him a commission, a job to do, as Jesus did with all of His own. The distinction between Jesus and all of us without exception is Jesus is the Word of God; we are all sinners in need of God's grace and mercy. The whole Bible, not just a select few pet chapters and verses, need to be taken in its totality, for God sent them all.

Acts 9
“Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?” And he said, “Who are you, Lord?” And he said, “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. But rise and enter the city, and you will be told what you are to do.”

John 13:20
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever receives the one I send receives me, and whoever receives me receives the one who sent me.”

John 15:26
“But when the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness about me.

@kellyjay said
As I said, it isn't me that matters; the scripture does. It is not just who is speaking; it is also who sent the one speaking. The Gospel isn't limited to Jesus's words only when He was one of us before He died and rose again. The Father sent Him, and Jesus sends the Holy Spirit and His followers to spread the Gospel. You reject Jesus; you reject the One who sent Him; you re ...[text shortened]... u from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness about me.

You are both a disgusting liar and a damn fool. I have repeatedly said that both Jesus and Paul and the Apostles preached the very same Gospel Message. Did you read the opening post ? It is the churches, of which you are part, that changed the Gospel Message You have crookedly removed the requirement for righteousness and good works.

It is you and your church who DENY CHRIST BY IGNORING HIS TEACHINGS AND COMMANDMENATS AND PREACHING FALSE DOCTRINES. The wedge between Christ and Paul comes from your church doctrines.

@rajk999 said
You are both a disgusting liar and a damn fool. I have repeatedly said that both Jesus and Paul and the Apostles preached the very same Gospel Message. Did you read the opening post ? It is the churches, of which you are part, that changed the Gospel Message You have crookedly removed the requirement for righteousness and good works.

It is you and your church ...[text shortened]... ND PREACHING FALSE DOCTRINES. The wedge between Christ and Paul comes from your church doctrines.

What church do I go to so you can point to its doctrine and match it to the things I have been saying? You claim it is the church I am a part of, well then which one is that? Your charge is just meaningless bluster; you have no idea, no clue!

I have never removed anything from the Gospel, nor have I added to them. Not once have I ever said we would not do good works, neither have I said they are not required, we are to obey the Lord without question, we are to live holy lives without question. No one can be holy without the Lord; it is He who redeems us, it is He who sanctifies us, it is He who gives us His Spirit according to His promise. We are forgiven not because of the good works we have done but because of what Jesus did, because of God's everlasting love for us. For God so loved the world, He gave.

If you can show me a single verse that says, we are saved by our good works that do not contradict the rest of the Bible; I would like to see it. The distinction of doctrine between us is this; we are saved to do good works, not do good works to be saved. I've been giving you scripture to show these things while you have not backed up your doctrinal claims with any scripture, only giving vague references to large portions of scripture where it might be found, nothing specific.

Galatians 3:2
Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith?

Titus 3:5
he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,

Hebrews 9:14
how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience from dead works to serve the living God.

James 2:26
For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.

Christianity is a living faith walking in the Spirit of God; it isn't just a set of rules for us to do this and not do that. That type of thing was found in the law; it brought death because none of us were made righteous by it; it instead showed us clearly how in need we are before God. God is either with us, or He is not, Jesus we are abiding in, or we are not; we are putting our faith in a living God, or we are not. You have the Son; you have the Father; if you don't have the Son, you don't have the Father. You deny the Son; the Son will deny you.

John 7:39
Now this he said about the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were to receive, for as yet the Spirit had not been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

John 16:13
When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.

Acts 19:2
And he said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” And they said, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.”

Romans 5:5
and hope does not put us to shame, because God's love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us.

Romans 8:3-5
English Standard Version
For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit.

@kellyjay said
We can honor him with our lips, and if our hearts are far from Him, don't you think He knows? Grace allows us to come to God; if all it was, was a get out of hell card, how selfish would we be to use Jesus for that? The top two commands are to love God and love each other; if we do anything else, we are not following Him. We can be fooled; He will never be, we can be tricked ...[text shortened]... er be, we can even fool ourselves, thinking we are on our own good enough, that would be delusional.

Yes I think that Jesus made that point that the law hung on these two principals