@rajk999 saidWell, as I have been pointing out to you the questions and answers have to do with rightly interpreting scripture, they have nothing to do with our opinions.
Did you not say you are going through some health issues ... well, clearly your ability to think and reason is not up to par. get some help.
@kellyjay saidWhatever makes you happy. Ok, what do you think of the US interfering in other country's business and causing wars.
Well, as I have been pointing out to you the questions and answers have to do with rightly interpreting scripture, they have nothing to do with our opinions.
@rajk999 saidThose involved will answer for what they did and why they did it. Which is no different then everyone else, all we did and said.
Whatever makes you happy. Ok, what do you think of the US interfering in other country's business and causing wars.
@Rajk999
They will do, not that I'm anti US, but as an example.
So a guy who we will say claims to be a Christian is flying missions over Iraq and bombs an area. In the raid he hits a house of another Christian, a woman who is pregnant and mother and child are killed.
So my question is: "What is the pilot's scriptural standing in that instance?"
@medullah saidI guess it all depends. Lets take a clearer case of an evil government. Who put that government in power. There are some people who wilfully vote into power an evil government who they know are greedy, selfish, warlike and who are going to go on a killing rampage. {Africa is full of examples ]. Still they vote them in power. If it is a military coup the people still have a responsibility to stand up to them or seek help from foreign authorities. The point is they do not.
@Rajk999
They will do, not that I'm anti US, but as an example.
So a guy who we will say claims to be a Christian is flying missions over Iraq and bombs an area. In the raid he hits a house of another Christian, a woman who is pregnant and mother and child are killed.
So my question is: "What is the pilot's scriptural standing in that instance?"
An evil government is the inevitable result of a weak electorate. War is the outcome and the people who voted in or allowed that government to run, they have to accept some responsibility. War = Death.
If the pilot is obeying the orders of the government in a just war, then he is not guilty in my opinion. The specifics of the Iraq case is not clear in my mind but I do remember Iraq to be a hostile country, itching for war, invading other countires, financing terrorists, and causing trouble. The people are not really innocent if they allow leaders to continue with their evil govts.
@Rajk999
I would suggest to you that your answer doesn't square with the bible ?
Exodus 21:22-25
“When men strive together and hit a pregnant woman, so that her children come out, but there is no harm, the one who hit her shall surely be fined, as the woman's husband shall impose on him, and he shall pay as the judges determine. But if there is harm, then you shall pay life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.
Give me scripture that trumps that one. 😲
People cant go around killing "just obeying orders" ; there is blood guilt.
@medullah saidOk this is the case of two individuals. The situation becomes complicated when it is two governments at war. Iraq and the people who live there at not innocent at all. That country has had a long history of war and violence. The reason for the UN and US getting involved, is because of their hostilities with neighbouring countries.
@Rajk999
I would suggest to you that your answer doesn't square with the bible ?
Exodus 21:22-25
“When men strive together and hit a pregnant woman, so that her children come out, but there is no harm, the one who hit her shall surely be fined, as the woman's husband shall impose on him, and he shall pay as the judges determine. But if there is harm, then you shall p ...[text shortened]... trumps that one. 😲
People cant go around killing "just obeying orders" ; there is blood guilt.
Here are a couple passages:
For the sake of the Lord submit yourselves to every human authority: to the Emperor, who is the supreme authority, and to the governors, who have been appointed by him to punish the evildoers and to praise those who do good.
(1 Peter 2:13-14 GNB)
Everyone must obey state authorities, because no authority exists without God's permission, and the existing authorities have been put there by God. Whoever opposes the existing authority opposes what God has ordered; and anyone who does so will bring judgment on himself. For rulers are not to be feared by those who do good, but by those who do evil. Would you like to be unafraid of those in authority? Then do what is good, and they will praise you, because they are God's servants working for your own good. But if you do evil, then be afraid of them, because their power to punish is real. They are God's servants and carry out God's punishment on those who do evil. For this reason you must obey the authorities---not just because of God's punishment, but also as a matter of conscience. That is also why you pay taxes, because the authorities are working for God when they fulfill their duties. Pay, then, what you owe them; pay them your personal and property taxes, and show respect and honor for them all.
(Romans 13:1-7 GNB)
@medullah said
@Rajk999
I would suggest to you that your answer doesn't square with the bible ?
Exodus 21:22-25
“When men strive together and hit a pregnant woman, so that her children come out, but there is no harm, the one who hit her shall surely be fined, as the woman's husband shall impose on him, and he shall pay as the judges determine. But if there is harm, then you shall p ...[text shortened]... trumps that one. 😲
People cant go around killing "just obeying orders" ; there is blood guilt.
I think you'll enjoy this, thought-provoking.
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
There were three great ministries in the Gospel preaching.
1.) The ministry of Peter - to catch men as fish in the Gospel net.
2.) The ministry of Paul - to plant church "tents" for those saved.
3.) The ministry of John - to mend the damaged Gospel net bring believers back
to life, back to the beginning.
How they were called is significant to how they functioned in the Gospel service.
Peter was called when fisherman. And he became a "fisher of men".
Peter caught men in the net of the Gospel. He was fishing when Jesus
said for him to follow Him to "catch" men in the gospel fishing net.
Paul was a tentmaker by trade though also a scholar. The people that Peter caught needed to be placed together in churches. Paul also preached the good news. But Paul went about to establish local churches for the saved to be planted together to live, grow, love one another for a corporate expression of saved "caught" people being built up together in local church "tents".
John was called as one mending the nets. The fishing net of Peter was damaged by enemies of the Gospel. The net had tears and wholes in it because of influence of the Gnostics and others mixing their ideas into the Gospel message. There was the need to bring the believers back to the beginning. John was a net mender bringing the believers back to Christ as their life. Christ is not any philosophy or religion but the very life of God imparted into the saved. John mended the net to bring believers back to Jesus as life, back to the beginning.
These three ministries were all a part of the new testament ministry of the Gospel. To catch men as fish in the Gospel net. To build them up and cause them to grow in the tents of practical churches. And to mend the damaged Gospel message to bring the distracted believers back to the beginning - back to Christ as their indwelling life as everything.
Want to read more?
The Mending Ministry of John by Witness Lee
https://www.ministrybooks.org/books.cfm?id=2FCFCD
The Completing Ministry of Paul by Witness Lee
https://www.ministrybooks.org/books.cfm?id=2BC4CDAA
(What are you doing here Dive? You don't read my posts. Right?)
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
Copied without permission from The Collected Works of Watchman Nee Set(1) Vol. 15. Study of Matthew.
Verses 18-22: Peter was called when he was casting a net; John was called when he was mending nets. Eventually, what Peter did every time was a work of net-casting, and what John did every time was a work of net-mending. Peter cast a net first on the Jews and then on the Gentiles. Among the four Gospels, John's Gospel was written the latest. At that time, the Lord was no longer seen by men, but John brought men back to the source. When John wrote his Epistles, modernism had come into existence. Therefore, John led people to know the One who is from the beginning. The church had degraded, so John came to mend the nets. If the church had not degraded during the apostolic age, we would not have known how to take care of the situation when the church became defeated. Therefore, the Lord allowed the church to become defeated in the apostolic age so that John could come to mend the net and people would know how to take care of the situation. It seems that a person's condition at the time of his salvation more or less determines his work later on.
https://www.ministrybooks.org/SearchMinBooksDsp.cfm?id=2DC7C9A8A8
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
Coming back to Christ as the life and the living Spirit in the beginning is critical. Otherwise one thing that can happen is all considerations of how to live become matters of right and wrong, ethical decisions, even politics.
Romans chapter 8 focuses on setting the mind on the spirit where the living Spirit of Christ is to sense life and peace. A Christian does have decisions to make. But they should not be totally in the realm of right and wrong, good and evil, - like the tree of the knowledge of good and evil" .
What is the sense of life and peace within as the Christian discerns subjectively.
Romans 8:4-6:
"That the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the spirit. (v.4)
For those who are according to the flesh mind the things of the flesh; but those who are according to the spirit, the things of the Spirit. (v.5)
For the mind set on the flesh is death but the mind set on the spirit is life and peace." (v.6)
Set the mind on the living Person indwelling the innermost human spirit.
There in the human spirit dwells the Holy Spirit , the life of Christ.
The sense of life and peace must be discerned. The sense of life and peace within is like the smile of the Lord. Too many decisions are not best made in the realm of the knowledge of good evil but in the realm of life and peace.
Much of the discussion here has gone off into the realm of what is good or evil to do. The mind set on the flesh can be on set of good things APART from touching Christ the living Spirit. His presence furnishes a fine, finer, keen sense of life and peace which has to more and more be the guide to the choices the believer makes.
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
As we grow in Christ we will move in many thigs from considerations of "Is THIS the good and right thing or is THAT the good and right thing."
We will grow more into "What is the sense of life and peace telling me in my spirit?"
"For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the spirit is life and peace." (Rom. 8:6)
The face of the Lord Jesus is "seen" deep in the heart, in the sense of life and peace by checking with Him in our spirit. Turn to the spirit where the Spirit of Jesus is to be guided as it were by the index of His eyes. The area around the eyes is called the index. We can look at a person and learn how she or he feels by the index of their eyes.
The Lord's "face" is sensed in our innermost spirit. When He is happy we will have life and peace". This has to be learned. This has to be developed to become a keener and keener sense.
The soldier, the voter, the parent, the Forum discusser, the teenager, the employee who is a Christian must learn to spend time with the Lord to discern the expression on His face deep within. That is the sense of wellbeing within, comfort within, easiness within. "For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the spirit is life and peace."
Before a Christian learns to live by the sense of life and peace within the deepest innermost spiritual sensation, he may be completely occupied with ethical considerations, the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, the realm of what is right or wrong. Many decisions have no clear rule book. The situation is fine. But the Lord as Life is perfect. Jesus ALWAYS knows exactly what to do.
It is not "WHAT WOULD JESUS DO?" as much as more "What is Jesus doing?" You learn this keener and keener sense by setting the mind on the regenerated spirit where the Spirit of Jesus is. You learn the sense of life and peace as a guide along with the word of God.
