Why torturing people for eternity is wrong

Originally posted by @kellyjay
Do you understand what the word bribe means?

The word bribe has dishonest connotations. But in the context of your post I took it to mean simply getting Gods favour

So when we apply our rules/laws/understanding to Him,
can we really grasp who He is, without His help?
Can we do anything to make Him act one way or another,
can we bribe Him, can we do enough good things
to atone for the wicked things we do?

So in the context of how you use the word bribe, the answer is Yes.
We can in fact do enough good things to get Gods favour.

I gave examples and I can give you the whole bible as examples.

The whole bible is about how to do good works, obey the commandments and live righteously to get Gods favour

Furthermore I can even provide you with examples of God being encouraged to do things he would rather not do.

Originally posted by @kellyjay
Do you understand what the word bribe means?

You are making a fool of yourself.

Originally posted by @rajk999
The word bribe has dishonest connotations. But in the context of your post I took it to mean simply getting Gods favour

[i]So when we apply our rules/laws/understanding to Him,
can we really grasp who He is, without His help?
Can we do anything to make Him act one way or another,
can we bribe Him, can we do enough good things
to atone for the wic ...[text shortened]... can even provide you with examples of God being encouraged to do things he would rather not do.

Statement 1: "The whole bible is about how to do good works, obey the commandments and live righteously to get Gods favour"

Statement 2: "Furthermore I can even provide you with examples of God being encouraged to do things he would rather not do."

Those two statements, in my mind, reflect what it means to be a troll, "One who posts a deliberately provocative message to a newsgroup or message board with the intention of causing maximum disruption and argument." (Urban Dictionary)

Not that there's anything wrong, or even unusual about that, certainly not, on this forum in its present condition.

God has always been saddled with the most outlandish burdens, and of late, it is mostly being done by self-labeled Christians.

Statement 1 Is true if the aim of Christianity is the personal eternal salvation and life (or similar achievement) of the individual. This reduces the effort to the status of the effort to get a needed replacement part to Salo on Titan (obscure, dated reference?)

Statement 2 is somewhat intriguing, in stating an ability, but being coy about it is a clever twist, rather like Lucy and the football, which is itself a clever twist on relationships built on the denial of satisfaction.

Any thoughts?

Originally posted by @rajk999
The word bribe has dishonest connotations. But in the context of your post I took it to mean simply getting Gods favour

[i]So when we apply our rules/laws/understanding to Him,
can we really grasp who He is, without His help?
Can we do anything to make Him act one way or another,
can we bribe Him, can we do enough good things
to atone for the wic ...[text shortened]... can even provide you with examples of God being encouraged to do things he would rather not do.

So you’re changing the meaning of words to suit you?

Originally posted by @kellyjay
So you’re changing the meaning of words to suit you?

Your question Can we do anything to make Him act one way or another,
can we bribe Him, can we do enough good things
to atone for the wicked things we do?

My answer : YES

Argue with that.

Originally posted by @js357
Statement 1: "The whole bible is about how to do good works, obey the commandments and live righteously to get Gods favour"

Statement 2: "Furthermore I can even provide you with examples of God being encouraged to do things he would rather not do."

Those two statements, in my mind, reflect what it means to be a troll, "One who posts a deliberately provo ...[text shortened]... is itself a clever twist on relationships built on the denial of satisfaction.

Any thoughts?

My thoughts? Here it is ... Ok.

Although I welcome atheists participating in discussions with Christians, I find yours particularity vague and annoying.

You lack clarity in your comments and questions. I suspect [and this is after years of watching you write], you do this deliberately.

Maybe this is another definition of a troll.

Originally posted by @divegeester
In the The God Who Hates thread this morning (my time in Greece) KellyJay asked me to tell him why I think The doctrine of eternal suffering is wrong. Obviously I’m a little surprised that question as it’s been one of the most discussed topics in this forum in the last several years and I would have thought my position on this is quite clear. But I’ll l ...[text shortened]... torture that is for sure.

I hope I’ve now made myself clear to you on this matter KellyJay?

#3) Gospel incoherence

The key phrase "believes in Him" is what causes the debate.

Is it mandatory to "believe" in your opinion? Rajk999 doesn't think so, despite what it says.

Originally posted by @rajk999
Your question Can we do anything to make Him act one way or another,
can we bribe Him, can we do enough good things
to atone for the wicked things we do?

My answer : [b] YES

Argue with that.[/b]

Yea, that is your answer.

Originally posted by @chaney3
#3) Gospel incoherence
The key phrase "believes in Him" is what causes the debate.
Is it mandatory to "believe" in your opinion? Rajk999 doesn't think so, despite what it says.

It is not the “key phrase” for this particular debate in this thread, but it is an interesting one.

Maybe you should start an new thread on it or the topic will get lost in here.

Originally posted by @divegeester
It is not the “key phrase” for this particular debate in this thread, but it is an interesting one.

Maybe you should start an new thread on it or the topic will get lost in here.

I think it's extremely relevant to this thread.

If you don't "believe in Him", you will perish, as stated in John 3:16.

That statement would seem to rule out atheists, and all other religions.

It's actually quite significant.

Edit: Suzianne has told me that "believing in Jesus" is the least I could do, for what He did for me. While that is true, does eternal hell await me if I cannot believe? Or if I have doubts?

It's quite serious....I think.

Originally posted by @rajk999
My thoughts? Here it is ... Ok.

Although I welcome atheists participating in discussions with Christians, I find yours particularity vague and annoying.

You lack clarity in your comments and questions. I suspect [and this is after years of watching you write], you do this deliberately.

Maybe this is another definition of a troll.

Fairly often, I go back to read a post of mine only to find it to be vague and or confusing. It seems like confusion creeps in in my final edits. I think my posts are sometimes justifiably dismissed by readers for this reason and or because I don’t take a clear stand. If it’s deliberate, I hope it’s not trolling but instead is seeking to elicit informative discussion. I’ll take your criticism seriously.

Originally posted by @js357
Fairly often, I go back to read a post of mine only to find it to be vague and or confusing. It seems like confusion creeps in in my final edits. I think my posts are sometimes justifiably dismissed by readers for this reason and or because I don’t take a clear stand. If it’s deliberate, I hope it’s not trolling but instead is seeking to elicit informative discussion. I’ll take your criticism seriously.

Ok so repeat your post in simpler language. Have your grandson read it for clarity before posting.

Originally posted by @rajk999
Ok so repeat your post in simpler language. Have your grandson read it for clarity before posting.

Please consider it withdrawn, instead.

Originally posted by @rajk999
Its the reason why Paul told women to shut up. They are irrational and driven by emotion and unnatural loyalties. Its the reason why a mother will look at her murderous son and proclaim that his is a good boy, just misunderstood.

Unlike men who are rational and driven by logic and have only natural loyalties, as they march gloriously to battle. Yet again.

Originally posted by @chaney3
...
If you don't "believe in Him", you will perish, as stated in John 3:16....

The bible says anything you want. For example, jesus already paid for my sin of being born.