Why torturing people for eternity is wrong

Originally posted by @fmf
No. I am interested in discussing your current beliefs and my current beliefs.

I understand that, but I asked you simply to understand what you used to believe to compare it to what I do now. If that makes you uncomfortable okay.

Originally posted by @kellyjay
I understand that, but I asked you simply to understand what you used to believe to compare it to what I do now. If that makes you uncomfortable okay.

Like I said, I am interested in discussing our current beliefs. And like I said before that,  if your current beliefs about who Jesus was help you to cope with life and death, good for you.

Originally posted by @fmf
Like I said, I am interested in discussing our current beliefs. And like I said before that,  if your current beliefs about who Jesus was help you to cope with life and death, good for you.

Was hoping some give and take, if it is just what you want fine.

Originally posted by @kellyjay
Was hoping some give and take, if it is just what you want fine.

I am not interested in your beliefs in the past. So there's no need for 'give or take' on that. I am interested in the claims you make now about you and me. That you're asking an atheist to explain things he no longer believes in - in order to help you explain or defend your current beliefs - has got to be one of the stranger knots you've ever tied yourself in.

Originally posted by @fmf
I am not interested in your beliefs in the past. So there's no need for 'give or take' on that. I am interested in the claims you make now about you and me. That you're asking an atheist to explain things he no longer believes in - in order to help you explain or defend your current beliefs - has got to be one of the stranger knots you've ever tied yourself in.

Your interests unless they are the only one's you care about are not all that is in play
here. My interests desire to know what beliefs you left, which helped mold you into what
you are, which is a part of your journey taking you where you are going. I realize this is
what you once believed, so it isn't where you are now. I'm not trying to pull a gotcha
here either. I don't want to debate your old beliefs just hear them from you. What it was
you believed, how did you present the gospel when you believed that there was a gospel
to present?

I'm a little surprised at your reluctance to share your old beliefs since you no longer
hold to them as being true. It isn't your life I'm asking about, but the how did you define
the gospel when you believed in it?

Originally posted by @kellyjay
Your interests unless they are the only one's you care about are not all that is in play
here. My interests desire to know what beliefs you left, which helped mold you into what
you are, which is a part of your journey taking you where you are going. I realize this is
what you once believed, so it isn't where you are now. I'm not trying to pull a gotch ...[text shortened]... sn't your life I'm asking about, but the how did you define
the gospel when you believed in it?

What still surprises me about FMF is his complete lack of care regarding Jesus.

If someone once called Jesus a 'friend', but has now totally kicked Him to the curb, you have to wonder how sincere it all was to begin with.

And if it was sincere at one point, then it takes a rather cold heart to turn away, then challenge others who are still working on their 'walk' with Jesus.

Originally posted by @chaney3
What still surprises me about FMF is his complete lack of care regarding Jesus.

If someone once called Jesus a 'friend', but has now totally kicked Him to the curb, you have to wonder how sincere it all was to begin with.

And if it was sincere at one point, then it takes a rather cold heart to turn away, then challenge others who are still working on their 'walk' with Jesus.

It is sad yes, but having a few years under my belt it isn't hard to see. Life can be difficult
and depending on God our trials will test our faith! If our faith isn't on something solid and
real it will and can crumble when tested. We either have God or we are making one up, if
we claim to be a Christian without God's Spirit, or we are just some type of theist. If what
we have isn't the real thing it will let us down, our imaginations about God cannot
compare to the real thing, and if we are really not walking with God and we discover what
we thought was true isn't our beliefs fall apart, or worse yet we find ourselves standing
before Jesus and hear the words, "I never knew you."

Originally posted by @chaney3
What still surprises me about FMF is his complete lack of care regarding Jesus.

If someone once called Jesus a 'friend', but has now totally kicked Him to the curb, you have to wonder how sincere it all was to begin with.

And if it was sincere at one point, then it takes a rather cold heart to turn away, then challenge others who are still working on their 'walk' with Jesus.

It's a debate and discussion forum, chaney. And propagating and/or challenging the belief that Jesus was a divine being and that belief in him is rewarded with eternal life and the belief that he will be looking on as billions are tortured for their lack of belief is all on-topic stuff that belongs on this forum.

If believers feel threatened by what they see as the "cold heart" of non-beievers in a diverse community like this, if they are that brittle in their faith that they are posting semi-self-pitying twaddle like what I am replying to here, then perhaps they belong on a Christian website where people with beliefs and views like mine are excluded.

Originally posted by @fmf
It's a debate and discussion forum, chaney. And propagating and/or challenging the belief that Jesus was a divine being and that belief in him is rewarded with eternal life and the belief that he will be looking on as billions are tortured for their lack of belief is all on-topic stuff that belongs on this forum.

If believers feel threatened by what they se ...[text shortened]... s they belong on a Christian website where people with beliefs and views like mine are excluded.

Lecture not needed. I was ON POINT with discussing how you now speak about God.

Originally posted by @kellyjay
It is sad yes, but having a few years under my belt it isn't hard to see. Life can be difficult
and depending on God our trials will test our faith! If our faith isn't on something solid and
real it will and can crumble when tested. We either have God or we are making one up, if
we claim to be a Christian without God's Spirit, or we are just some type o ...[text shortened]... t, or worse yet we find ourselves standing
before Jesus and hear the words, "I never knew you."

I faced no tribulations or trials and life was not difficult. I have positive and fond memories of being a Christian.

I simply realized, after a long process of reflection, that I had stopped believing that the Bible provided credible evidence to support the things that Christians believe about the identity of Jesus and the significance of his life and death.

And when I realized I no longer believed the things that Christians believe about themselves, I stopped self-identifying as one.

Say, twenty years ago, for example, I was as sincere about my faith as you are now; it all felt as real to me as it feels to you now.

Originally posted by @chaney3
Lecture not needed. I was ON POINT with discussing how you now speak about God.

If there Jews or Hindus or Muslims or other believers in supernatural beings and phenomena posting here, I'd have more or less the same approach.

Originally posted by @fmf
If there Jews or Hindus or Muslims or other believers in supernatural beings and phenomena posting here, I'd have more or less the same approach.

There is a big difference between making a decision that you are no longer a believer, and your current posting attitude about faith.

Whether you realize it or not, your posting style has an underlying 'mocking tone' regarding believers. You seem to 'sneer' at the 'God figure'.

I don't really understand why you do it.

Originally posted by @fmf
I faced no tribulations or trials and life was not difficult. I have positive and fond memories of being a Christian.

I simply realized, after a long process of reflection, that I had stopped believing that the Bible provided credible evidence to support the things that Christians believe about the identity of Jesus and the significance of his life and deat ...[text shortened]... was as sincere about my faith as you are now; it all felt as real to me as it feels to you now.

Listen, I will ask you questions about your life if this is where you want to go, you are a
very important person as we all are according to my faith, a lot was given for us. I don't
want to pry, but will go there if invited. I am just trying to understand what you left with
respect what was the gospel to you when you believed. The things people even
"Christian" people believed or didn't believe don't interest me. People can always let us
down, for that I confess I've let down more than a few in my life time. We are not the
perfect beings we think we are.

So the gospel, when you did believe it, can you describe it. Not the people you used to
hang out with, but the gospel. Our sincerity isn't a scale of right, wrong, justice, evil,
good, or anything else, it is just another word for being sold out into belief of some sorts.
As it has been pointed out quite a few places here lately, Jesus said many are going to
come to Him saying Lord, Lord, and He is going to say depart from Me I never knew you
I can only imagine many of them were sincere all the way to Hell.

Originally posted by @chaney3
Whether you realize it or not, your posting style has an underlying 'mocking tone' regarding believers. You seem to 'sneer' at the 'God figure'.

I disagree. I think you are mistaken. But if you think you detect a mocking and sneering tone in the postings of any of the theists, religionists or other non-believers here I will look on with interest as you take them to task.

Originally posted by @kellyjay
So the gospel, when you did believe it, can you describe it.

I post here as a non-believer. I am not a Christian. My former Christian self is not in competition with or engaged in any way with your current Christian self.

I am interested in discussing your current beliefs: the claims you make about you and me. And I am interested in discussing my current beliefs.

My current beliefs about your current beliefs are clearly laid out in the observations I make, the issues I raise and the questions I pose.

The answers and responses to questions about your beliefs are not going to be found in what I believed in past decades.