‘Eternal suffering’ is nonsensical

Originally posted by @dj2becker
Should we make a list of the questions that divegeester is avoiding?

On second thought, go ahead if you wish.

Originally posted by @sonship
First let me say that two of you, Ghost and Dive have decided to request dj2becker just stop responding to you. Realize that this mostly gives the impression that he may be exposing the weaknesses in some of your arguments.

Realize that this mostly gives the impression that he may be exposing the weaknesses in some of your arguments.

Apart from the impression it "mostly gives" you, what other impression does it give you? Are you aware of what else he might be doing apart from, as you suggest, "exposing the weaknesses in some [people's] arguments" that has had him in bad odour with a string of people stretching back a couple of years?

Originally posted by @sonship
Loads of respect for sonship, huh? Hmmm!

I was being relative and recognising that you at least have something to say. Don’t worry I’m not going soft on you.

Originally posted by @sonship
No, I will not re-write, re-post, re-link you to examples.

Then stop making stupid claims about him then.

Originally posted by @sonship
Are you going to let me examine in depth the issues of your questions as I want to?

If you are enequivocal. These are yes or no responses sonship. I ask these questions like this to try to force you to be unequivocal about topics which require it.

You either would burn alive someone you loved, or you wouldn’t. It’s not a trick question.

Originally posted by @deepthought
There won't be brimstones and so on, you'll just be condemned to take part in this thread for the rest of time.

These are not the topics you are looking for....

Originally posted by @fmf
[b]Realize that this mostly gives the impression that he may be exposing the weaknesses in some of your arguments.

Apart from the impression it "mostly gives" you, what other impression does it give you? Are you aware of what else he might be doing apart from, as you suggest, "exposing the weaknesses in some [people's] arguments" that might?[/b]

Above I wrote:

No, I will not re-write, re-post, re-link you to examples.

Originally posted by @sonship
Above I wrote:

No, I will not re-write, re-post, re-link you to examples.

But it doesn't answer my question. It's an answer to a completely different question.

Originally posted by @sonship
First let me say that two of you, Ghost and Dive have decided to request dj2becker just stop responding to you.

Realize that this mostly gives the impression that he may be exposing the weaknesses in some of your arguments.

There are plenty of posters who are more obnoxious then dj2becker. I mean - mean spirited, insulting, poisoning the well of dis ...[text shortened]... aken this approach could even suggest collusion. It looks that way a bit - a coordinated scheme.

You say it most gives you impression X. What other impression, aside from X, does it give you as well?

Originally posted by @divegeester
If you are enequivocal. These are yes or no responses sonship. I ask these questions like this to try to force you to be unequivocal about topics which require it.

You either would burn alive someone you loved, or you wouldn’t. It’s not a trick question.

I don't see those under judgment as alive.
So questions about burning alive as related to "the second death" are loaded questions.

That's the first point.

The second is that God has the job to do to cause us who are alive to understand that there will be negative misery associated with being unreconciled to God forever.

Since none alive can really comprehend what the realm of death is like in being so judged and separated from His kingdom, words are conveyed to us to get the message across.

The message is clear - " It is a state to be avoided. Christ is the provided salvation to the avoidance of that state."

Third point that comes to my mind right now:

The question really is "Why doesn't God give UP His righteousness for the sake of His great love?"

A related question would be "Why too doesn't God give UP His great love for the sake of His eternal righteousness?"

If we realize Who it was who died and rose - God incarnate as a man, we can see that He came as close to that as He would that we be reconciled to God.

" Him who knew no sin He made sin on our behalf that we might become the righteousness of God in Him." (1 Cor. 5:21)

As far as it is possible for creatures - His human beings, to comprehend, God took on Himself and into Himself the full consequences for our being joined to Satan.

He died not only as the sacrificial "Lamb of God". He died in the form of a brass serpent ( John 3:14,15) .

He died as the ancient serpent Satan under judgment (brass). All the filth, all the contemptible indecency and iniquity of sinning He carried up in His body. We are commanded to believe.

"And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, That every one who believes into Him may have eternal life." (John 3:13,15)

God says Christ died as Satan being judged with all the world and all of us "poisoned" sinners.

What God sees is reality. And God saw His Son as everything hateful to a holy, glorious, and righteous uncreated Eternal God as condemned that we be reconciled to God.

Originally posted by @sonship
I don't see those under judgment as alive.

Leaving aside that you have failed to answer those very straightforward questions again...you are now saying that those people in eternal suffering are not suffering becuase they are dead. Is that correct?

I could not have the hatred for evil sin that the Triune God has.

I could not have the love for the sinner that God has.

I could not take the place of Christ in His work of redemption, death and resurrection.

I could not put myself in His place and ask if I would do as God does.

I know that in His plan I will be conformed to the image of His Son. And at the end of the process, maybe then, I could know if I would do all things as God has done them.

If I was already in the full image of His Son, I might be able to say that I would or would not do what Christ has done. But I need to be conformed to the same image to know this.

"Because those whom He foreknew, He also predestinated to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the Firstborn among many brothers." (Rom. 8:29)

If I have a controversy with God now about the way He would judge the lost forever in spite of His great love for them, I expect that I will see everything clearly through His eyes when I am finally conformed to His image according to His eternal purpose.

Originally posted by @sonship
Third point that comes to my mind right now:

The question really is "Why doesn't God give UP His righteousness for the sake of His great love?"

A related question would be "Why too doesn't God give UP His great love for the sake of His eternal righteousness?"

If we realize Who it was who died and rose - God incarnate as a man, we can see that ...[text shortened]... a holy, glorious, and righteous uncreated Eternal God as condemned that we be reconciled to God.

You are just waffling to avoid on topic questions sonship.

Here is the question you need to answer. It stems from your own post a couple of pages back where you were explaining how much Jesus loved a woman, he loved her so much so that he died for her. But according to you, Jesus will now burn her alive in eternal hell for the eternal sin of rejecting him.

The question to you is this, for the 5th time:

Would you burn alive for eternity someone you loved that much, because they rejected you?

I dare you to answer, and we both know why you won’t. Because this question highlights the idiocy of your horrid teaching. I know you are trying to bury this question under copious tangential posts and I’m not going to let you do it.

Originally posted by @divegeester

No, there is everlasting misery as far as I can see.

How "the second death" can be a place of conscious "misery" I cannot explain. But you cannot deny that that is what is conveyed in the revelation.

That this is a torment is evident.
The word "torment" is associated with a period of five months in Revelation 9:5 .
The same word is used in association with "forever and ever" in Revelation 14:11.

This state is called "the second death" . And there is a "hurt" associated with "the second death" (Rev.2:11)

I cannot explain how this can happen.
If it could not happen then Jesus Christ and the apostles would be unrighteous to teach that it could happen. That would be dishonest of the Son of God to give us the impression that there could be something to fear that is not none existence and that is beyond man's mere ability to kill physically. (Luke 12:4,5) .