What!? Not Talk About the Trinity ?

Originally posted by sonship

The trinity at best is a man-made explanation of the godhead, nothing more.

If all explanations are man-made at best then why isn't your explanation, man-made at best too ? Your explanation is seen above in the quoted box right about what you are now reading.

[quote]
Therefore it cannot be "truth" in the same way that "hear oh Israe ...[text shortened]... itles. The revelation is not "man-made" because the word "trinity" is not in the New Testament.

"Hear oh Israel the Lord your God is one"

Is not an "explaination" it is a Biblical fact stated unequivocally over and over again.

The trinity is a man-made explaination.

Originally posted by sonship
I have a sense about different posters. My sense is not infallible.

Pursuing a discussion of "How [b] wrong can I be and still be a Christian?" is not a profitable subject for me.

Likewise pursuing "How much can I talk differently from you, sonship, and stil be a Christian?" is not a profitable preoccupation.

And wheth ...[text shortened]... at you talk about" that's OK too. Your "Right," "privileged," "honest assessment" .. whatever.[/b]

Personally I just think this is you intellectualising away your need to avoid being challenged about your strange beliefs.

Originally posted by KellyJay
There is a scripture that says it isn't by works we are saved, but by grace. That same
verse goes on to say we will do good works, so you just have it backwards.

Ephesians 2:
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

These good works which God has prepared in advance, are the very same good works that Jesus commanded his disciples to do. There is nothing different. And Christians will have to make the effort to perform these good works otherwise they would not be allowed to enter the Kingdom of God.

If you continue reading the same Ephesians you would see Paul explaining that it is essential for the Christian to follow after good works and righteousness otherwise they will face eternal damnation.

What good works has God prepared in advance and how is the different from the commandments of Jesus?

Originally posted by Rajk999
These good works which God has prepared in advance, are the very same good works that Jesus commanded his disciples to do. There is nothing different. And Christians will have to make the effort to perform these good works otherwise they would not be allowed to enter the Kingdom of God.

If you continue reading the same Ephesians you would see Paul explain ...[text shortened]... good works has God prepared in advance and how is the different from the commandments of Jesus?

We are saved by grace, to do good works, we are not saved by works to receive grace.

Originally posted by KellyJay
We are saved by grace, to do good works, we are not saved by works to receive grace.

I thought that question might stump you. You have been braying for years about how God has good works prepared for Christians to do. These good works are the very same as the good works which Jesus said must be done to get eternal life. Its the same thing. Jesus said do good works and you will get into the Kingdom of God. Paul said that you have to do these good works that God prepared and live righteously otherwise there is no eternal life.

Be ye therefore imitators of God, as beloved children; and walk in love, even as Christ also loved you, and gave himself up for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for an odor of a sweet smell. But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as becometh saints; nor filthiness, nor foolish talking, or jesting, which are not befitting: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know of a surety, that no fornicator, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. (Ephesians 5:1-5 ASV)

Christians have to WORK, DO GOOD WORKS, LIVE RIGHTEOUSLY to get into the Kingdom of God.

Originally posted by Rajk999
I thought that question might stump you. You have been braying for years about how God has good works prepared for Christians to do. These good works are the very same as the good works which Jesus said must be done to get eternal life. Its the same thing. Jesus said do good works and you will get into the Kingdom of God. Paul said that you have to do ...[text shortened]... /i]

Christians have to WORK, DO GOOD WORKS, LIVE RIGHTEOUSLY to get into the Kingdom of God.

I acknowledge we will be doing them, just not for the reasons you are portraying.
Without a doubt we need to be doing them, but our doing them is not what saves us!
Jesus saves us by God's graces, not by works!
We will without a doubt do good works, we will without a doubt live for the Lord God of
Heaven and Earth. NO WHERE do I deny these are not important things, only that they
are not what saves us, we are save by grace through faith.

Originally posted by KellyJay
I acknowledge we will be doing them, just not for the reasons you are portraying.
Without a doubt we need to be doing them, but our doing them is not what saves us!
Jesus saves us by God's graces, not by works!
We will without a doubt do good works, we will without a doubt live for the Lord God of
Heaven and Earth. NO WHERE do I deny these are not important things, only that they
are not what saves us, we are save by grace through faith.

That is irrelevant. Christ is only interested in one thing and that is that people live righteously and do good works. Your continued harping on this foolishness and now calling it wickedness to follow Jesus commandments is very stupid.

There is no difference between a man that listened to the teachings of Jesus, and one that listened to the teachings of Paul. All will be judged by the very same criteria .. GOOD WORKS.

Originally posted by Rajk999
That is irrelevant. Christ is only interested in one thing and that is that people live righteously and do good works. Your continued harping on this foolishness and now calling it wickedness to follow Jesus commandments is very stupid.

There is no difference between a man that listened to the teachings of Jesus, and one that listened to the teachings of Paul. All will be judged by the very same criteria .. GOOD WORKS.

Does this include atheists?

🙂

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Does this include atheists?

🙂

An atheist is a man who says he does not believe in God.
A Christian is a man who says that he believes in God.

Jesus ignores what people say, and instead look at the heart because what the man thinks and what he does are often different.

There are Christians who claim to believe but their actions do not support what they say.
There are atheists who claim not to believe but whose actions are pleasing to God.

Jesus was clear in Matt 25 that all of mankind will face judgement. Paul was equally clear in Romans 2 that even though a man knows no law, he will be judged.

God is no respecter of persons and all people will be judged by their works.

Originally posted by Rajk999
An atheist is a man who says he does not believe in God.
A Christian is a man who says that he believes in God.

Jesus ignores what people say, and instead look at the heart because what the man thinks and what he does are often different.

There are Christians who claim to believe but their actions do not support what they say.
There are atheists who ...[text shortened]... e will be judged.

God is no respecter of persons and all people will be judge by their works.

So the atonement is pointless then?

Originally posted by divegeester
So the atonement is pointless then?

Christ died for the sins of the world, [the world includes atheists], so that whosoever believes [with their heart and not their mouth] will have eternal life. Many people [including atheists] believe that the teachings of Jesus are good and noble and ideally should be followed. If an atheist follows Jesus commandments, Christ will judge that person.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Christ died for the sins of the world, [the world includes atheists], so that whosoever believes [with their heart and not their mouth] will have eternal life. Many people [including atheists] believe that the teachings of Jesus are good and noble and ideally should be followed. If an atheist follows Jesus commandments, Christ will judge that person.

Are there any commandments from Jesus that you think would be problematic for atheists to follow?

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Are there any commandments from Jesus that you think would be problematic for atheists to follow?

Well of course, the part about loving God and praying to God etc. However Christ said plainly how he will judge in Matt 25. Paul said that even though some people live by no law [law of Moses or Christ] they will be judged by the law by which they live. Living right trumps belief in God because not everyone is privy to a knowledge of God, but everyone has a conscience and a knowledge of good and evil that can guide them. Primitive tribes living in the South American jungle will also be judged by their law. Christ died for them as well and they will enter Gods Kingdom if they are considered worthy by Jesus.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Christ died for the sins of the world, [the world includes atheists], so that whosoever believes [with their heart and not their mouth] will have eternal life. Many people [including atheists] believe that the teachings of Jesus are good and noble and ideally should be followed. If an atheist follows Jesus commandments, Christ will judge that person.

Based on your previous post, I'll take that as a yes.

Originally posted by Rajk999
That is irrelevant. Christ is only interested in one thing and that is that people live righteously and do good works. Your continued harping on this foolishness and now calling it wickedness to follow Jesus commandments is very stupid.

There is no difference between a man that listened to the teachings of Jesus, and one that listened to the teachings of Paul. All will be judged by the very same criteria .. GOOD WORKS.

You are works driven I get that, but as has been pointing out to you by me and several
others it isn't works that saves us. Works are the by product of our salvation that God
has for us to do.

For you to continue to make the claim I'm saying that it is foolishness to follow Jesus'
commandments only makes you out to be a liar. Once I can see it being a mistake, but to
continue to do so only shows your heart isn't in the truth. You must have a high opinion of
yourself to think your views are as good as Jesus and scripture even when they do not
agree.